[BOOK SPOILERS] Jaime?

[Boi]

I think Gendry is more likely to find Sansa than Arya at this point: he's sailing off to King's Landing, not the Red Fork.

No NO. The drowned god requires offerings, he can't swim. Kill POV's we don't need more unrelated lines. Without a Vikings moot we could use more drownings that'll make a hard bastard out of him.

The whole thing was, Lady stark traded jamie for the stark girls. An Oath Jamie could try and keep. With lady stark dead the oath died with it..

Brienne's choices and how jamie helps here, I think will make for more interesting TV than what we got in the books which was "Wall shes not here, so uhh.. heres a sword, and a piece of paper...Goodluck"

Jamie's oath will be to Brienne because Tully named Brienne with the task of recovering her daughters which she will still feel obliged. With Arya presumed dead, valar morghulis. Do you see Brienne charging off to finds her when Sansa is at risk? Maybe Gendry will row his boat in time, but that would be far too pathetic.

I don't like the fact Jamie is in the Kings Landing. Not protecting his son a hand'less attempt at the plot. Setting up angry Cercei sex, she won't be satisfied. So she goes and finds moonboy, loras, lancel, kettleback's, trant, qyburn, pycalle and the other half of Kings Landing. Jamie in turn free's his brother and tasks Brienne with Sansa to her aunt probably a dual task with Arya. As Brienne will need to get carried to Stoneheart or the Blackfish/Brotherhood at some point

[six]

No NO. The drowned god requires offerings, he can't swim. Kill POV's we don't need more unrelated lines. Without a Vikings moot we could use more drownings that'll make a hard bastard out of him.

Jamie's oath will be to Brienne because Tully named Brienne with the task of recovering her daughters which she will still feel obliged. With Arya presumed dead, valar morghulis. Do you see Brienne charging off to finds her when Sansa is at risk? Maybe Gendry will row his boat in time, but that would be far too pathetic.

I don't like the fact Jamie is in the Kings Landing. Not protecting his son a hand'less attempt at the plot. Setting up angry Cercei sex, she won't be satisfied. So she goes and finds moonboy, loras, lancel, kettleback's, trant, qyburn, pycalle and the other half of Kings Landing. Jamie in turn free's his brother and tasks Brienne with Sansa to her aunt probably a dual task with Arya. As Brienne will need to get carried to Stoneheart or the Blackfish/Brotherhood at some point

Why is everything about Gendry these days? :lol:

[Weeping Sore]

Why is everything about Gendry these days? :lol:

Gendry knows that Arya is alive- he will be the only one in King's Landing who does.

So Jaime plots to have Sansa escape during the PW and be escorted by Brienne to the Eyrie. Brienne & Sansa run into Gendry somehow, and are both surprised to hear that Arya is alive and held by the BwB. Sansa assuring Brienne she will be safe with LF and her Aunt, they put her on a ship to the Fingers, and Gendry vows to aide Brienne in finding the Brotherhood and Arya. Brienne trains him in arms on the way, they kill Locke, and eventually are captured by Stoneheart & the BwB.

Jaime putters around KL for awhile then eventually lays seige to Riverrun before Brienne finds him.

[six]

Gendry knows that Arya is alive- he will be the only one in King's Landing who does.

So Jaime plots to have Sansa escape during the PW and be escorted by Brienne to the Eyrie. Brienne & Sansa run into Gendry somehow, and are both surprised to hear that Arya is alive and held by the BwB. Sansa assuring Brienne she will be safe with LF and her Aunt, they put her on a ship to the Fingers, and Gendry vows to aide Brienne in finding the Brotherhood and Arya. Brienne trains him in arms on the way, they kill Locke, and eventually are captured by Stoneheart & the BwB.

Jaime putters around KL for awhile then eventually lays seige to Riverrun before Brienne finds him.

That actually sounds good! But it changes the storyline quite a bit, because at that point both Jaime and Brienne would know where Sansa is, and I'm not sure it would work for LF...

[Weeping Sore]

That actually sounds good! But it changes the storyline quite a bit, because at that point both Jaime and Brienne would know where Sansa is, and I'm not sure it would work for LF...

Maybe Sansa insists her home is KL and she'll be safe as Tyrion's wife. One of the Kingsguard picks up Gendry, Jaime notices a resemblance to a young Robert, and somehow gets the information out if him that Arya is alive. Jaime sends Brienne and Gendry to find Arya. Sansa is saved/abducted by a LF patsy as in the books.

But Gendry would be more likely to spill the truth about Arya to Sansa than Jaime.

[Le Cygne]

This is what I seriously disliked this season, that the sense of how in danger Sansa is in KL has pretty much gone. She's not that careful about hiding her feelings now, Cersei doesn't torment her anymore (why oh why did they leave that amazing scene of Cersei dragging her to get married?) and she's surprisingly fine with being married to Tyrion. I wanted to see her conflicted, and it's not happening.

You're right, such a change from last season. That scene with her dragging Sansa to the altar was so good. How is Seashell Cersei ever going to send Falyse to Qyburn? I guess she won't. Same with Sansa, I try to imagine what's going on in her head, and there's radio silence. Who knows what will happen next, because we don't know who they are anymore.

[silentwanderer]

Then again, Jaime knows something the rest of the Lannisters have seemed to forget: The Starks have a bastard brother on the Wall. And a Night's Watch brother marched to the Wall the morning Arya "vanished" into thin air.

While his whole family think as politicians, Jaime still thinks like a soldier and a soldier would certainly see the opportunity presented here.

Brienne's status as a sworn knight of Lady Catelyn is not going to change before or after Joffrey's wedding, the Lannister would never trust her with Sansa.

The whole thing was, Lady stark traded jamie for the stark girls. An Oath Jamie could try and keep. With lady stark dead the oath died with it..

Brienne's choices and how jamie helps here, I think will make for more interesting TV than what we got in the books which was "Wall shes not here, so uhh.. heres a sword, and a piece of paper...Goodluck"

Its an oath, not a spell. An oath doesn't die just because the person they swore to is dead

Brienne doesn't have a choice in it, neither does Jaime: either they keep their word or they have failed.

Remember: They came back to King's Landing weeks before they were supposed to on the books. The show has given them more than enough time to plan a course of action to find Arya Stark before Sansa escapes during Joffrey's wedding, so there must be a plot behind it.

ETA:

Gendry knows that Arya is alive- he will be the only one in King's Landing who does..

In which case, it would make more sense to send him with Brienne instead of Podrick .

Bonus points because he looks just like Renly, something that has to bother Jaime one way or another.

[maria underfoot]

Why not? Sam brought Gilly to the NW and she's no one to him, why wouldn't Jon's little sister who has lost her family be allowed to stay for a time? Or at least, she could be reunited with Jon, and at that point it's in Jon's hands what to do. Brienne might not know about him, but Jaime would be aware of the fact Sansa still has an aunt and and an half-brother she could go to. And I know Tywin would never allowed it and this is another matter, but for both Jaime and Brienne not to try would be a plot hole and out of character. The people who say there's nowhere to take Sansa are wrong.

To go after Arya would make no sense, because she's been missing for like a year. Where would you even start? Brienne's quest for Sansa in the books was fairly hopeless, but still they at least knew Sansa had run away and not that much time had passed, but with Arya is a different matter entirely and it would be silly. Also, Sansa isn't safe in KL; she's married into the family who killed her own, Tywin is pushing for Tyrion to impregnate her so they have a claim to Winterfell and presumably get rid of her once she's had a child, and Joffrey torments her. To attempt to get Sansa away should be a priority.

No one would look for Arya Stark. I can't see how this makes any sense to you, silentwanderer. Arya has been missing for a year, where would Brienne even start looking for her? For all they know Arya is probably dead because it's been way way too long to make a search for Arya a reasonable option. It would be taking the piss if the writers did that.

It would be Jaime to try and get Sansa to run away with Brienne either to go to her aunt or brother.

It wouldn't be logical, but I think that logic and reason aren't their number one priority.. (Teleporters, teleporters everywhere!) Jaime and Brienne will probably try to get Sansa out. But they must fail at that, it's not like Lysa would actually open her gates for Sansa and Brienne and a thank-you note from a Lannister.

Therefore I don't think it's impossible that Brienne could go in a doomed mission to find Arya, meaning that she'll go around saying "I failed Lady Catelyn when it comes to Sansa, but I'll try to find Arya, even if it is the last thing I ever do." I don't like it, but it is a possibilty

[six]

It wouldn't be logical, but I think that logic and reason aren't their number one priority.. (Teleporters, teleporters everywhere!) Jaime and Brienne will probably try to get Sansa out. But they must fail at that, it's not like Lysa would actually open her gates for Sansa and Brienne and a thank-you note from a Lannister.

Therefore I don't think it's impossible that Brienne could go in a doomed mission to find Arya, meaning that she'll go around saying "I failed Lady Catelyn when it comes to Sansa, but I'll try to find Arya, even if it is the last thing I ever do." I don't like it, but it is a possibilty

Sh-t. Can you imagine if they really brought them back earlier just to give us this crap? I want to think they won't go that low though. I mean, some book readers thought that Brienne's quest for Sansa was doomed and because of that unnecessary, if that was doomed looking for Arya is super and unbearably doomed. I can't with these changes :bawl:

[Le Cygne]

They did say Dontos would be back, so I think Sansa needs to be at Kings Landing for the Littlefinger plot.

[silentwanderer]

They did say Dontos would be back, so I think Sansa needs to be at Kings Landing for the Littlefinger plot.

This season beat us over the head with the engagement to Lysa Arryn for it not to be the case.

I can certainly picture Lord Baelish telling Jaime that Harrenhal was the last place he ever saw Arya Stark (season 2 beat us over the head with their close encounter too).

From then on, its only a matter of time before Littlefinger sends Jaime & Brienne after one sister, only so that he could snatch the other one.

[Boi]

They did say Dontos would be back, so I think Sansa needs to be at Kings Landing for the Littlefinger plot.

That will really complicate? Dontos hasn't been seen apart from knighted as the clown in season 2. Dontos is still open as background ultimately there really hasn't been enough to make his character get back into her character arc, no conversations, because LF took his lines and that trust. PW we gets to see the only clown, the jousting dwarves have been sacked, cough posion, quicks says the clown I will rescue almost to funny. Or maybe he teleports into her plot afterwards during her house arrest and rescues her, no build up outside a scene way back last season?

Wouldn't be easier If Brienne, .......... I don't see her being affected by Lysa if she is just an escort? Though escaping KL without a ship is the issue.

.

[six]

They did say Dontos would be back, so I think Sansa needs to be at Kings Landing for the Littlefinger plot.

I hope they scrap the Dontos' idea, because it's silly. Why would Sansa trust Dontos now, after he hasn't appeared for so long?

[Weeping Sore]

I hope they scrap the Dontos' idea, because it's silly. Why would Sansa trust Dontos now, after he hasn't appeared for so long?

I think Jaime & Brienne's arcs have to end up at the same point they currently are in the books (Stoneheart), and I think it's no accident that Gendry is in the same place. I'll spare you the details this time, but the three of them have to make it to King's Landing after dealing (somehow) with Lady Stoneheart.

Gendry's not going to rejoin the BwB based on how they treated him. But he might feel bad about abandoning Arya and not trust that she is safe with the BwB after they sold him out and after hearing how Arya's mother was murdered. Gendry alone (in KL) knows that Arya is alive. So he has motivation to aide Brienne in seeking out Arya in the Riverlands, he just needs the occasion to encounter Jaime/Brienne/Sansa. Of those 3, he would be most likely to share his knowledge with Sansa once he knew who she was.

Would it be too stupid to have Sansa looking out into the harbor as she has multiple times this season and see Gendry rowing into the Blackwater? Could she be with Tyrion at the time? He might have Gendry seized and questioned, for example. (I'm curious to see how Tyrion & Jaime interact, whether Jaime lets Tyrion know the oath he has sworn. "I've got to rescue your wife from you."(?!) Cautiously optimistic about original Jaime scenes in KL. The new KL scenes in S3 were 90% excellent IMO)

As I said above, either Jaime has a secret plan to spirit Sansa away (with Brienne as her escort) to her aunt in the Eyrie, or Sansa makes it very clear that she wants to stay in KL with Tyrion (in which case she is spirited away by Dontos or another LF proxy on the night of the PW as in the books)

So either:

1.Brienne & Sansa encounter Gendry on the way to the Eyrie and Brienne & Gendry peel off to the Riverlands to find Arya, or-

2.Team Jaime/Brienne find out about Arya in KL from Gendry and team Jaime/Brienne splits into Brienne (w/Gendry) searching for the BwB & Arya in the Riverlands and Jaime staying in KL to watch/protect Sansa.

After Sansa is rescued/abducted, Jaime goes to break the seige at Riverrun as in the books (too much good work casting and developing Edmure/Blackfish for this not to happen). All the while, Jaime is still hoping to find Brienne.

Brienne trains Gendry at arms on their journey. Brienne & Gendry are captured by the BwB after killing Locke and his men. They meet Stoneheart.

[Le Cygne]

So either:

1.Brienne & Sansa encounter Gendry on the way to the Eyrie and Brienne & Gendry peel off to the Riverlands to find Arya, or-

2.Team Jaime/Brienne find out about Arya in KL from Gendry and team Jaime/Brienne splits into Brienne (w/Gendry) searching for the BwB & Arya in the Riverlands and Jaime staying in KL to watch/protect Sansa.

I can't go there with 2. He can't keep Sansa there and protect her, unless he locks her in his room and stays there with her. It just messes the story up really badly. The drama is sucked out of it already.

That was perfect. Now, if both of them know Sansa is there, and she stays there, and then, even worse, gets caught up in a murder plot they don't protect her from, that's still shackling her (Littlefinger uses it to get her to stay with him), it just won't be the same.

And if they replace Hyle Hunt with Gendry, that's going to screw up Brienne's story even more. They always make everything about the male characters on the show, but Hyle Hunt was part of Brienne's story.

[Weeping Sore]

I can't go there with 2. He can't keep Sansa there and protect her, unless he locks her in his room and stays there with her. It just messes the story up really badly. The drama is sucked out of it already.

I'm only there at "2" if Sansa is insisting that she wants to stay in KL with Tyrion (i.e., not admitting that she would like to escape. She was not sure she wanted to go with LF, but then cried when LF's ship sailed, having found out she would be marrying Tyrion instead of Loras)

Sansa might think she is safest where she is for the time being. She would certainly hesitate to trust Jaime, and I'm not sure how she could plausibly get in a situation to talk with Brienne. (even then, what reason would she have to trust Brienne other than she has an honest face?)

If Jaime has it from Tyrion that he has vowed not to force himself on his young wife, Jaime as captain of the Kingsguard could reasonably protect her from other dangers. Brienne probably would not be pleased, but how would she insist on abducting Sansa against her will?

The PW changes everything because Sansa is instantly a suspected co-conspirator. I suppose Jaime could spontaneously allow her to escape and send Brienne to meet her, but more likely it would still be Dontos or a LF proxy that Sansa trusts more than a Lannister.

Your preferences for how it played out on the book are well put, though.

[Le Cygne]

She would certainly hesitate to trust Jaime, and I'm not sure how she could plausibly get in a situation to talk with Brienne. (even then, what reason would she have to trust Brienne other than she has an honest face?)

Here:

1) Brienne is a highborn lady who served Renly, not the Lannisters, and this is easy enough to confirm

2) Loras could tell her about Brienne (Sansa could just ask casually). Loras on the show doesn't think Brienne killed Renly and knows she left with Catelyn.

3) Brienne could tell her things Catelyn told her that Sansa knows Catelyn wouldn't just tell anyone (in the books, she talked to Brienne about Arya, Sansa, etc.)

On the show, Sansa trusts an unknown servant (Shae) who happens to be pretty friendly with the Lannister she had to force marry, but she wouldn't trust Lady Brienne of Tarth? If show Sansa is THAT stupid (and she just may be), then do 4)

4) Trick her, for her own good. Littlefinger is going to trick her, and he doesn't have her best interests at heart.

[Serr Parker]

I thought this, ruins the story arch slightly but it's better than dragging him and Brienne plodding about Westeros for 15 episodes (GRRM's fault not the shows), I have faith that they'll make it work, and he can't even attempt to let Sansa go:

1) Shes married and belongs to Tyrion.

2) Where to? The war is over and she believes all of the family is dead.

On the Sansa note it will be interesting to see how she escapes, if they bring Dontos back in or she just runs and gets lucky

[Le Cygne]

If Jaime has it from Tyrion that he has vowed not to force himself on his young wife, Jaime as captain of the Kingsguard could reasonably protect her from other dangers. Brienne probably would not be pleased, but how would she insist on abducting Sansa against her will?

Even if we look at Tyrion with rose colored glasses, bad stuff happened to Sansa while he was around. She remained a hostage. Joffrey had her publicly beaten. She was force married. Tywin is determined to get a Lannister heir, and even if Tyrion keeps his word, annul that marriage and force another Lannister on her. She's in danger every minute she's there. He also knows the Tyrells were plotting to marry Sansa, so there's political intrigue she can become embroiled in and... since we read the books, we know that happens. And now she's forced to stay with Littlefinger, who is pawing all over her.

I thought this, ruins the story arch slightly but it's better than dragging him and Brienne plodding about Westeros for 15 episodes (GRRM's fault not the shows), I have faith that they'll make it work, and he can't even attempt to let Sansa go:

1) Shes married and belongs to Tyrion.

2) Where to? The war is over and she believes all of the family is dead.

1) She was force married. Tywin wants an heir. See above. Also, Tyrion should help her escape, too. He should have done it in the first place.

2) There are other relatives. But just somewhere safe, which is the current plan in the books, anyway. Dany was spirited away and lived to see another day. There's a whole world out there, and they've got money, smarts, and resources.

[Weeping Sore]

Here:

1) Brienne is a highborn lady who served Renly, not the Lannisters, and this is easy enough to confirm

2) Loras could tell her about Brienne (Sansa could just ask casually). Loras on the show doesn't think Brienne killed Renly and knows she left with Catelyn.

3) Brienne could tell her things Catelyn told her that Sansa knows Catelyn wouldn't just tell anyone (in the books, she talked to Brienne about Arya, Sansa, etc.)

On the show, Sansa trusts an unknown servant (Shae) who happens to be pretty friendly with the Lannister she had to force marry, but she wouldn't trust Lady Brienne of Tarth? If show Sansa is THAT stupid (and she just may be), then do 4)

4) Trick her, for her own good. Littlefinger is going to trick her, and he doesn't have her best interests at heart.

I agree it would be better for Jaime/Brienne to take action rather than react to events- but after all that, they would be sending her into LF's arms anyway. (What does Jaime think of Littlefinger, and does he realize how batshit Lysa is at this point? Tyrion certainly does) I guess I'm wanting them to take action, but thinking Jaime would balk at taking away Tyrion's wife. Maybe Brienne would act alone, frustrated with Jaime's hesitancy?