[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa III

[Mladen]

Hello, again... It`s been quite the season and the time has come to sum our impressions. And the 3rd edition of Discussing Sansa thread will be devoted to Sansa in entire Season 3.

The first two threads can be found here:

1. Discussing Sansa I (Episode 7)

2. Discussing Sansa II (Episode 8)

This episode brought us 2 Sansa scenes, in my humble opinion, quite dull and pointless. I thought we`ll see some reaction from Sansa, but as always, I was wrong. All in all, this episode hadn`t brought some sort of closure, and poorly managed storyarc ended with a scene in which Sansa didn`t utter a word.

So, comparing to Sansa in books, what was hits and misses of this episode and this season? Was the writing for one of the most controversial characters satisfying and did it all end in a way you thought it will end? What particularly annoyed you and where were you really glad to see Sansa on-screen, and lastly, overall, was it good adaptation of Sansa`s character?

[SoooTrypticon]

I was a bit disappointed overall with Sansa this season. In season 2 she seemed to be growing as a character... But in season three she was more often than not the butt of a joke. In many ways, she felt like a slightly different, (and more foolish) character.

For this season, I was hoping for a payoff/reveal to explain the change in her portrayal. Perhaps, when she and Tyrion were alone after the wedding, she would disclose to him that she was not as naive as she seems, and had been getting better at lying. A bit to ground her- for example she knows that the Lannisters fully expect Robb to die soon, which is why her wedding needed to happen.

Something like that, to pave the way for her time with Littlefinger.

Perhaps the show runners are saving that for next season- so for this one, they wanted to play up her "simple nature" so the change would be more dramatic?

[Broken Fox]

The crying scene was perfect. That's all we needed this episode. The earlier scene with Tyrion was just a waste of screentime.

[Lehnaru]

I was really angry and disappointed that we didn't get a reaction from Sansa about the news of her own wedding to Tyrion, but I consoled myself that it would be made up by her reaction to the Red Wedding, which I was looking forward to.

Well, that's that. Again, Sansa's initial reaction was completely ignored and we only had a shot of her crying by the window. I was anticipating a full-blown orchestrated super sad Stark theme and some great acting by Sophie Turner to illustrate her extreme shock and distress; what I have come to expect from great television. Oh well.

As for Sansa briefly being happy in her marriage... what? It's nice to see her happy for a change, but Sansa isn't supposed to be happy! She's supposed to be coldly courteous to Tyrion. What happened to "courtesy is a lady's armour"? The girl is being written off as a shallow side character in the show and she's one of the most important characters in the books! I hope she's fixed in season 4. Perhaps she'll have a larger role in Joff's wedding incident? I'd like that; it'd certainly be a deviation I wouldn't mind.

I also don't like how Sansa is being portrayed as extremely dull-witted; are they combining her with Lollys? She's supposed to be very intuitive, intelligent, and empathetic by the beginning of the third book. Finally, what is Brienne doing in King's Landing when Sansa is still there? Will Joff's wedding happen in episode 1, or will the two actually meet?

[PhoenixFlame]

I wish we had more of her reactions, but I actually liked the scene with Tyrion. In the books it would've been stupid because Tyrion is much uglier, inside and out. However, he's more charming and thoughtful on the show (whether it's a good change or not is an argument for another thread). So it fits that while she doesn't "want" him, she's able to be friendly...I actually thought it was so cute how she knelt down to speak to him...not as a "show of submission" but just to look at him levelly in the eye. Then, BAM, Red Wedding. I think that glimmer of warmth between them has been thoroughly shattered.

[Gannicus]

She has been put on the back burner this season. But her stuff was always going to be difficult for television to adapt.

I think I like the show Sansa better than I liked the book Sansa at this point.

[Gannicus]

I wish we had more of her reactions, but I actually liked the scene with Tyrion. In the books it would've been stupid because Tyrion is much uglier, inside and out. However, he's more charming and thoughtful on the show (whether it's a good change or not is an argument for another thread). So it fits that while she doesn't "want" him, she's able to be friendly...I actually thought it was so cute how she knelt down to speak to him...not as a "show of submission" but just to look at him levelly in the eye. Then, BAM, Red Wedding. I think that glimmer of warmth between them has been thoroughly shattered.

Good point, with Tyrion being a nicer guy in the show. Sansa's reactions couldn't be the same or fans would hate her.

[AbortiveSorrows]

Not gonna lie, I am super unhappy with the way she was portrayed this season. She is my favourite character in the book, and I honestly think her chapters are brilliantly written, they may not be fast-paced, but they often read more like literary or classic fiction than the same old genre way. There was so much potential in her ASOS chapters, and the TV Show really didn't do it justice. I mean, they gave her no screen time for scenes that deserved it (the marriage news, RW news), and instead added cutesy type scenes, which just made her look shallow and stupid ("Can I invite my family to the wedding!?" REALLY.)

But that said, I think Sophie Turner is such a great actress, and that's like the biggest positive.

Also, I agree with it being necessary to show her being friendlier with Tyrion, because with him being so nice here, it wouldn't have felt consistent otherwise. And I really liked the intention behind the scene, and how it comes right before the RW news arrives.

So overall, I don't know, I am not satisfied, but I would like to think the show did try. Hopefully next season will be better. I want them to explore other aspects of Sansa's character. Example: That Tyrion chapter before PW where he sees her skillfully interacting with everyone, and thinks she would have been a good Queen.

[Milcov]

I thought both her scenes were quite good with one exception. Once again they've made her incredibly stupid, she's arguably more naive now than back in season 1. She should be growing in intelligence and all it would need is some dialogue with Tyrion in that scene about her understanding peoples motivations, maybe even about Tywin wanting her pregnant for Winterfell (it's basic but it shows her growing) rather than not knowing swear words properly. Same story with all her conversations with Margaery.

[Mladen]

Well, that's that. Again, Sansa's initial reaction was completely ignored and we only had a shot of her crying by the window. I was anticipating a full-blown orchestrated super sad Stark theme and some great acting by Sophie Turner to illustrate her extreme shock and distress; what I have come to expect from great television. Oh well.

I have to admit I was expecting something more. I honestly believe in book canon and I know how she reacted in the books, but arguably Martin wrote all other Stark characters` reactions to RW like that (beside Arya`s). Some weren`t even sure Jon and Bran know about RW. But when they explored darker Arya and gave her time and chance to do something, I can`t imagine why Sansa is seprived of same. As you said, we could have expected some super sad Stark line, but as always, with Tyrion on-screen, it had to be about him.

I wish we had more of her reactions, but I actually liked the scene with Tyrion. In the books it would've been stupid because Tyrion is much uglier, inside and out. However, he's more charming and thoughtful on the show (whether it's a good change or not is an argument for another thread). So it fits that while she doesn't "want" him, she's able to be friendly...I actually thought it was so cute how she knelt down to speak to him...not as a "show of submission" but just to look at him levelly in the eye. Then, BAM, Red Wedding. I think that glimmer of warmth between them has been thoroughly shattered.

Yes, because why anyone would not like Tyrion? This is why fans should never adapt books. When you are infatuated with one character like D&D clearly are with Tyrion, you make these sort of mistakes, because you want to portray him far better than he is. So, Tyrion`s portrayal influenced Sansa`s. The problem is that she never wanted the marriage, she was completely open about it, and her coldness to him was more than once described as Wall itself. The changes made with Tyrion influenced Sansa, and for the worse...

I think I like the show Sansa better than I liked the book Sansa at this point.

May i ask why? I mean, Sansa`s chapters in ASOS are full of great material, brilliantly written, if I may add, and the show missed lion`s share of it. As someone said, she is arguably more naive in Season 3 than in Season 1...

[Mendoza]

She's a prop for Tyrion in his ongoing issues with his father. That is all.

Them as best friends forever yucking it up in court? Cringeworthy.

[David Selig]

That Sansa scene at the start was just awful. She is smiling, she is happy because who wouldn't when she's in the company of the awesome Saint Tyrion? The incessant whitewashing of Tyrion is ruining other characters too.

Then the joke in the end...they made her look like an idiot again. And it was a really terrible joke too.

[Milcov]

That Sansa scene at the start was just awful. She is smiling, she is happy because who wouldn't when she's in the company of the awesome Saint Tyrion? The incessant whitewashing of Tyrion is ruining other characters too.

Then the joke in the end...they made her look like an idiot again. And it was a really terrible joke too.

It's awful but I've just resigned myself to Tyrion being perfect so it makes sense that Sansa can enjoy time with him on a walk. The joke was bad because it makes her seem stupid and they really need to find other sources of cheap laughs than Sansa being an idiot and Pod being well hung. Sansa needs to develop and grow as a character and these dumb moments are ruining things, but we just need to accept we can't have book Sansa with show Tyrion.

[Mendoza]

Speaking of the bad call back, girls giggling over the legend of Pod, am I the only one who wants him to be flayed by Ramsey Snow?

[Versiroth]

Dull and pointless? Uh, they showed Sansa and Tyrion starting to get a long a bit before ruining it with the news that the Lannisters just orchestrated the murder of her mother and her brother. Yep... pointless. This will set up perfectly for next season when Sansa meets Dontos again and she is running off to the Gods Wood. Tyrion will simply think that she's still grieving.

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

I think Sansa's storyline and character will improve once she's away from Tyrion. Her story-arc is being sacrificed to make him look good. Plain and simple. I didn't mind her having a light moment with Tyrion because it fits the context of the show (not the books) and I thought she portrayed her heartache really well in the small moment that she was given. Of course, this was also told from Tyrion's point of view as well. Again, my same complaint about D&D, they take away a lot of the agency of the female characters in the books when they translate it to the screen. Sadly, I'm getting used to it.

I just hope Sansa's future storyline isn't further sacrificed for the benefit of Littlefinger. If that happens, then I'll be royally pissed.

[Mladen]

Dull and pointless? Uh, they showed Sansa and Tyrion starting to get a long a bit before ruining it with the news that the Lannisters just orchestrated the murder of her mother and her brother. Yep... pointless. This will set up perfectly for next season when Sansa meets Dontos again and she is running off to the Gods Wood. Tyrion will simply think that she's still grieving.

The point is they never started to get along, yet alone being in good relationship, like in the show. Nothing they did works for them. It was basically pointless scene which could have been replaced with something far more impactful and meaningful. This scene just doesn`t work. And I don`t see this scene working perfectly for anything.

[Cas Stark]

While it's a big departure from the book, I was sort of okay with this, I thought they were trying to show that Sansa is attempting to make the best of her circumstances...as Marg counseled her to....but, as always, it falls apart in the end, just as she begins to relax a tiny, tiny little bit it turns out the Lannisters have engineered the brutal murder of the rest of her family.

[jons nissa]

While it's a big departure from the book, I was sort of okay with this, I thought they were trying to show that Sansa is attempting to make the best of her circumstances...as Marg counseled her to....but, as always, it falls apart in the end, just as she begins to relax a tiny, tiny little bit it turns out the Lannisters have engineered the brutal murder of the rest of her family.

this. the show has established a different relationship with these characters and has tweaked the characters as well. having them speak in a friendly tone is logical.

The point is they never started to get along, yet alone being in good relationship, like in the show. Nothing they did works for them. It was basically pointless scene

well, since we don't know how things will end for this couple, we don't know how pointless it is to show them interacting in a friendly manner.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Yes, because why anyone would not like Tyrion? This is why fans should never adapt books. When you are infatuated with one character like D&D clearly are with Tyrion, you make these sort of mistakes, because you want to portray him far better than he is.

There are some who'd say that a lot of readers are similarly infatuated with Sansa.

May i ask why? I mean, Sansa`s chapters in ASOS are full of great material, brilliantly written, if I may add, and the show missed lion`s share of it. As someone said, she is arguably more naive in Season 3 than in Season 1...

I personally don't agree on Book Sansa, and I also thought show Sansa was better again this week. To me, ASOS book Sansa is so introspective, full of feeling sorry for herself, and fantasizing (all the stuff previously mentioned about puppies, Florian and Jonquil, etc.). To me (and I know others disagree), she was annoyingly passive/sulking most of the time.

This week's Sansa actually seemed to come out of that shell and be more assertive. The scene with Tyrion, where she's talking about getting even with those who laughed at him -- she actually had me convinced that she had a mind of her own. Rather than letting life continually just beat her down, she found at least a temporary ally, and was animated to a certain degree. The "shift" was funny because it was a reminder of her naivete, but still, I think the scene showed that she was not going to let life beat her. I actually liked her. And the final scene was just tragic. We'd just seen this girl pulling herself out of a mental rut, and then this horrible news comes in and just pushes her right back into a shell. I really, really liked it because it actually seemed realistic to me.

While it's a big departure from the book, I was sort of okay with this, I thought they were trying to show that Sansa is attempting to make the best of her circumstances...as Marg counseled her to....but, as always, it falls apart in the end, just as she begins to relax a tiny, tiny little bit it turns out the Lannisters have engineered the brutal murder of the rest of her family.

Well said.