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[potential book spoilers]did this episode just prove that...


WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive

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Well, I never thought of the dialogue of Tywin and Tyrion that way, actually. To me it was pretty clear Tywin said that, despite the fact he'd rather not have Tyrion, as he was his true son, he didn't kill him. Don't you think Tyrion would've asked a bit more, if Tywin implied that Tyrion is not his son? ;)

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Hey good point Maxime - the 3 heads of the dragon? The Cripple, The Dwarf, and a Woman? (Or the Bastard) being the true Hero's of the Story? It would break the fantasy Hero type.

Hmm...interesting. What did Tyrion say back in GOT? I wish I could remember the quote about bastards and broken things...

"I have a soft spot in my heart for cripples, bastards and broken things."

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I beleive JoJen has been compelled to find Bran with his dreams and vision, as a Greenseer he may not be completly accurate granted but his batting average is doing pretty well at the moment. Bran spent most of his time being told his visions and Warging were dreams up until JoJen arrived,trying to harness his abilities in a long journey with JoJen as his mentor can not have been easy. Trusting himself harder yet as he crosses a new threshhold of being.

I get the feeling Bran will use his Warging abilities and Seer abilities to basicially be command central when all hell breaks lose, being able to communicate through Trees, Dreams,and Warging, being able to see what others cannot. I also think we as readers and viewers will get our history lessons from him going forward on why things are as they are now.

As far as Tywin and Tyrion, Tywin sees everything in Tyrion he wants in Jamie, brave, smart, resourceful, understands the game, and a proven leader if asked or forced to be. He also sees a killer of his wife, a deformed entity from his loins and is shamed because of that and how Tyrion is not as descrete about his wanton lust for whores and drinking. Tywins one crutch is the pride of his house, he could not bring himself to kill the last child from he and his wife despite the more tradional means of disposing of them, throwing them to the sea to possibly eliminate a threat to the future gene pool and disgrace of the house. Even though Tyrion was also the cause of his wifes death.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's worth re-watching that last Tywin/Tyrion scene, it's beautifully acted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyh9w_AO3YE

I too interpreted what Tywin was saying as very ambiguous: "I wanted to let the waves wash you away... But I didn't..." [and here everyone expects him to say "because you are my son."] but instead he says "because you are a Lannister and I bought you up as my son..."

Also, are there hints of the Great northern conspiracy when Tyrion says: "The North will never forget this..." Not the Starks, but the North...

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I took the "raised you as my son" to mean he didn't cast him into exile or abandon him at an orphanage after he was born. He may have treated Tyrion like crap but he did give him full access to the family fortune and use the family armory to outfit Tyrions army of Hill Tribesman, so he clearly if however grudgingly did accept Tyrion as a true Lannister and bestow on him benefits of being "one of the family".

By contrast Ned raised Theon from the time he was a little boy and in general was much kinder to him than Tywin ever was to Tyrion, but Ned definitely did not raise Theon "as his son". Theon was always well aware that he was a captive that could be killed at any moment if Balon pulled any shit and he had no freedom to go gallivanting about the Realm blowing a fortune in "Daddy's" money.

Well said. Exactly.

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But in the show, Twyin ends that dialog with "And raised you as my son". That is what made people wtf. Especially with all the Targaryen rumors.

I think you might be thinking into the language a bit too much. By that I presume that Tywin is saying he could have gotten rid of Tyrion very easily, but he felt the need to raise him as his own because at the end of the day, he's a true Lannister. Think the 'as my son' bit is emphasising that Tyrion has Tywin's Lannister blood.

I see the confusion though.

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Since the subtext with Joana is completely lost on the show, so there's no way tell if Tywin was actually fond of his wife, I took it that he mean he had the chance to kill Tyrion and he didn't take it. It implies he doesn't love Tyrion, but he acknowledges his worth for the family.

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