The Last King`s Man: Rereading Davos

[Fire Eater]

I think that LF and Davos truly represent total opposites. Unlike LF, Davos never forgot his roots, and those roots help him becoming better man, accomplished man, while LF`s roots turned him into a bitter, sadistic monster who wants to screw with all the Great Houses of Westeros. Davos` nobility is in his vision, something LF will never have. Davos is the man who have soething to fight for, and LF has only his ambition and hunger. That`s why Davos can find satisfaction, something LF never will. And that`s what`s going to lead LF to his demise.

They are close to foils of each other. Davos is genuinely loyal to Stannis while LF is loyal to no one except himself, as exemplified by killing the people who raised him up, Jon and Lysa Arryn. Davos's vision is to build a better life for his sons while LF wants to get as much as he can for himself.

Some more foreshadowing I found

The Seven have never brought me so much as a sparrow

I think the HS will send the Faith Militant north to deal with Stannis and his army made up of worshiper of R'hllor and the Old Gods, akin to the Church having military orders subdue pagans and members of the Eastern Orthodox Church in the Northern Crusades.

Black moleskin gloves covered his hands; the right because it was burned, the left because a man felt half a fool for only wearing one glove.

Davos wears gloves to cover his hand with shortened fingers on his left hand. I think this foreshadows him and Jon working together, going together like the left and right hands.

[Mladen]

snip

As always, Lummel, you give us the wonderful insight and new perspective. I am so in awe for this post of yours. Thank you for that. My opinion is that Davos is religious, but he is not fanatic. He doesn`t involve in deep spiritual conversations like others, for he acknowledges he`s just a man, and those secrets are beyond him. It`s not about not being able to understand it, it`s just that Davos knows what he sees. Burnt sword is just that, it can`t be Sword of Hero. But, his loyalty is what sets that aside, and he is ready to accept publically the official version of the story.

Also, you made wonderul point about year zero. There is a reason why people should take fanaticism seriously. Stannis as practical as he is, doesn`t allow any fluctuations in alliegence. He has a new God, and you`ll acceot it, or you`ll keep your mouh shut. It`s as best as you get with religious freedom in medieval times. KIngs do what they want and commoners have to bend the knee and just obbey. There is another great historical parallel when it comes to acceopting new religion for sole purposely selfish causes. Like Henry VIII (whom I always believed was inspitration for Robert) who changed dogma just so he could get divorce, Stannis changes religion just because he wants Throne, and he sees Melisandre can help him with that. There is nothing spiritual on hand here, this is pure pragmatism.

You are so right, Mladen. Davos is so ordinary. His description is all brown; his hair, his eyes. Brown is the color of dirt, dried leaves, tree bark and manure. He blends in like forest animals, most of which are brown. In this regard, it perhaps is Martin's way of disguising the extraordinary with the ordinary. Davos sigil, an onion, is common. It;s an ingredient in probably every bowl of "brown" in fleabottom.

I'll return later. . .

I think you are right. Onion (one day I`ll discuss about it on my Ice and fire nature project) is all about layers. Simple layers that makes very astonishing person. When you see it, you cry. It`s common, goes into everything and doesn`t smell nice. But, it`s simplicity is what`s truly great aout it. It`s just like Davos says: I am not a hero. But what is a hero? Davos is one type of hero who does 1000 small things, that in great equasion makes him truly heroic figure. He smuggled onions and saved hundreds, he saved boy`s life, and he went on a mission to find another. He isn`t man of songs, but his little deeds are what truly makes him one of the greatest man in ASOIAF.

[Lummel]

...I think you are right. Onion (one day I`ll discuss about it on my Ice and fire nature project) is all about layers. Simple layers that makes very astonishing person. When you see it, you cry. It`s common, goes into everything and doesn`t smell nice. But, it`s simplicity is what`s truly great aout it...

.

I feel the choice of an onion for Davos is a warning, we need to be on the look out for the layers in his POV - which should be subtle but pervasive!

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Onion (one day I`ll discuss about it on my Ice and fire nature project) is all about layers. Simple layers that makes very astonishing person. When you see it, you cry. It`s common, goes into everything and doesn`t smell nice.

I disagree!!! Stir fry onions smell super deliciously :)

[Mladen]

The Seven have never brought me so much as a sparrow

I think the HS will send the Faith Militant north to deal with Stannis and his army made up of men made up of worshippers of R'hllor and the Old Gods, akin to the Church have military orders subdue pagans and members of the Eastern Orthodox Church in the Northern Crusades.

I like this. It fits perfectly of what I think about High Septon.

I feel the choice of an onion for Davos is a warning, we need to be on the look out for the layers in his POV - which should be subtle but pervasive!

I agree, but I also think that these layers are complementing each other. One layer for every good need, no metter how small in the big picture is, and you have a hero. Without looks, sword and songs. Just a good man doing right things.

I disagree!!! Stir fry onions smell super deliciously :)

Oh God :). I come from two nations that use onions in everything... There is almost no meal in French or Serbian cuisine that doesn`t have onions in it...

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Oh God :). I come from two nations that use onions in everything...

Guilty of sacrilege, then :)

Speaking of religion, Davos displays the piety of the common man: dogma is not important, most people don't really know and don't even care about it - Septon Merribard explains the faith to the common people in an unorthodox way... Religion for most people is not really a philosophical belief, it's more a matter of tradition and cultural heritage. Davos, like most people, prays to the Seven because that's the way he was brought up, like the Wildlings carve faces on the trees just after they have been focred to convert to R'hlor. Tradition and cultural heritage are a very powerful motivating factor in the long term.

I think this is the reason he's shocked more by the burning of the statues than of Ser Hubard Rambton and his sons. Disobeying - acting openly against the King's decisions is a crime in Davos' eyes, a crime that "rightfully" results in punishment. The burning of the seven, on the other hand...

Stannis as practical as he is, doesn`t allow any fluctuations in alliegence. He has a new God, and you`ll acceot it, or you`ll keep your mouh shut. It`s as best as you get with religious freedom in medieval times. KIngs do what they want and commoners have to bend the knee and just obbey.

This is not entirely correct... During middle ages, base popular revolts were actually quite common. As every movement of the masses, they needed an ideology. As theology was the only form that philosophical issues were discussed, religion had served as the ideological arsenal of these movements. Most of the various heresies that appeared in those eras were born out of social issues (anabaptism, for examble). In the series, the rise of the sparrows is such a case, and it has the potential to be very dangerous. Also, the kind of R'hlorism that Thoros practices can be viewed as heretical - quite different than Mel's and Moqorro's version, and supported by common people (a minority, for now, but maybe a source of conflict later). Kings cannot always do what they want. There is a threshold in what commoners tolerate, and religion (mostly as tradition and culture) has proved to be a very sensitive issue.

[Blisscraft]

Just wanted to add a couple of comments about the use of color in this chapter. The dominant colors on Dragonstone are red and black: Targ colors. Mel is the "red" woman and everything about her as seen through Cressen's eyes is red: hair, clothing, demeanor. Contrasted with with Davos's brown coloring and all of that red and black really pops out. The color brown lacks the drama of the colors red and black. Consequently, it seems less important. However, the color brown is pervasive elsewhere in Westeros.

Fire Eater's mention of Stannis' line about the sparrow, a brown bird, brings the "Sparrows" to mind. As the Sparrows appear later, I won't go too far with this idea, but it seems that the common people, the Sparrows, as part of the institutionalized Faith, achieve quite a bit due to their numbers. Also, this line about the sparrow conjures up Hamlet: ". . . there's a special providence in the fall of sparrow. If it be now, tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be now, if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all." Hamlet, Act V, sc ii. The readiness is all extends to Stannis and his followers in that he will be the only leader to take the fight where it is needed: north to the Wall.

[Mladen]

Speaking of religion, Davos displays the piety of the common man: dogma is not important, most people don't really know and don't even care about it - Septon Merribard explains the faith to the common people in an unorthodox way... Religion for most people is not really a philosophical belief, it's more a matter of tradition and cultural heritage. Davos, like most people, prays to the Seven because that's the way he was brought up, like the Wildlings carve faces on the trees just after they have been focred to convert to R'hlor. Tradition and cultural heritage are a very powerful motivating factor in the long term.

I think this is the reason he's shocked more by the burning of the statues than of Ser Hubard Rambton and his sons. Disobeying - acting openly against the King's decisions is a crime in Davos' eyes, a crime that "rightfully" results in punishment. The burning of the seven, on the other hand...

There is a famous quote in Serbian literature. I`ll translate it as best as I can `Why do you, God, torment us the poors who celebrate you more than rich ones, fed and bored?` It speaks of difference in religious beliefs between simple men and noblemen. As you have wonderfully noticed, for commoners relligion isn`t dogma. It`s something deep, and private, but they also are more pious than those that have everything. For they have something to pray for. We have also great parallel with disolution of monasteries during the reign of Henry VIII, and the Pilgrimage of Grace. Ordinary people saw destruction of monasteries as evil act, much like many saw burning of the Seven. Unlike them, they didn`t rebel, but I think that we have strong idea about how they feel through Davos` eyes.

Just wanted to add a couple of comments about the use of color in this chapter. The dominant colors on Dragonstone are red and black: Targ colors. Mel is the "red" woman and everything about her as seen through Cressen's eyes is red: hair, clothing, demeanor. Contrasted with with Davos's brown coloring and all of that red and black really pops out. The color brown lacks the drama of the colors red and black. Consequently, it seems less important. However, the color brown is pervasive elsewhere in Westeros.

Talking about colors, you are truly right. It misses the drama red and black have. It is color of the dirt, of the land. And that truly envision Davos. We have red associated with blood, and we have red as a mystical color, but brown is anything but. It`s grounded, practical color. In color pychology it`s the color of honesty and sincerity. Interestingly, we have around Stannis, all 4 elements. Melisandre is fire, Davos is earth, they are basically surrounded by water, and Stannis is of Stormlands, that indicates air. So, there is a quite equilibrium in Stannis`s life at the moment. The problems will begin when one elemnt starts consuming others.

[Blisscraft]

Mladen - I like the idea of the presence of the four elements. Very nice. I would only add that "smoke" as it's associated with AA is a vehicle for making the "invisible," the air, visible. Of course, Mel seems to believe that Stannis fulfills the criteria for this world saving hero, AA, as he is from the island of smoke and salt. (Insert cured meat reference here).

Also, I love the quote and your point about it. God bless that child that's go his own. . . .

[Mladen]

Davos II, ACOK

OVERVIEW

Stannis and his party meets with Ser Courtnay Penrose outside the walls of Storm`s End. After refusing to surrender Robert`s bastard son, Edric Storm, Penrose returns to Storm`s End and Stannis talks to Davos and Melisandre. Later in his tent, Stannis orders Davos to take Melisandre that night to Storm`s End. Davos does that, and at the end, he witnesses the birth of the shadow, whose face is well-known to him.

OBSERVATIONS

- Davos indentifying with Stannis and his humble clothes

- The beginning of `one true God` debate

- Stannis`s tormented and sickly appearance

- Renly`s peach – symbol of Stannis`s regret and sorrow

- Visions can see the future, but not the deceits made in future

- Storm`s End walls and magic built in them.

- Game of shadows

ANALYSIS

Stannis`s appearance and Davos`s dirty thoughts

In this entire chapter, we see how Davos is amazed by Stannis`s sickly appearance. Davos compared the King to the corpse, and entire Stannis`s appearance is so somber and disturbing. You can sense that Davos is really worried for the King and that Stannis is tormented by the worst ghosts. What Davos doesn`t know, and we saw through Catelyn`s POV, Stannis was indirectly involved in the death of his brother. And what Stannis remembers as a dream, and whatever excuses he finds for himself, he knows deep down he killed his brother. And this look of his, this sickly corpse that aged so much, is nothing more than a man tormented by guilty conscious. But, yet again, Davos`s intuition proves right. After hearing that Melisandre is the only one that can soothe King`s pain, Davos`s initial thought is on sex. Interestingly, he has proven right. However Melisandre gave birth to shadows, one thing is certain - Stannis sired them. And there`s only one way to do that. Again, just like with the messy sword, Davos`s simple eyes are capable of seeing pass the mystery of the relationship between the King and Melisandre.

Alester Florent and other `true` men

There is a drama in Serbian literature `Battle of Kosovo` and in it is one of my favorite quotes: When Turk is blooded to the elbows, Poturica (convert to Islam) must be blooded to the shoulders. And Lord Alester is the wonderful proof of this line. He is the first one to speak about `one true God`, he is eager to show how loyal he is. Entire Stannis`s party made of men that supported Renly desperately wants to prove how supportive they are, and how ready they are to fight for Stannis`s cause. Younger knights Guyard Morrigen and Bryce Caron are willing to fight with much older Ser Courtnay. Davos wonderfully estimated their loyalty:

“Last year they were Robert’s men. A moon ago they were Renly’s. This morning they are yours. Whose will they be on the morrow?”

Both Davos and Stannis know how worthy loyalty of the new subjects is. Stannis basically equalized them with common mercenaries who would flee on first sight of danger. That`s why the need of being intimidating is so important for the King. With philosophy worthy of Tywin Lannister himself, Stannis believes that these men should be more afraid of him, than of his enemies.

Stannis`s justice

Stannis is one of so rare people that understand how justice works. And I think that through Stannis, GRRM shows us his own idea of justice. Good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. If we would look so many characters of ASOIAF through this POV, we would understand characters and their fates much better. But rare are the people that acknowledge the existence of good and bad in people. Melisandre believes that half-rotten onion is rotten onion. And there`s the main difference between them. Where Stannis would cut the rotten part, Melisandre would squash it whole. Stannis`s idea of justice is so close to Davos`s idea of good and evil. Stannis isn`t flexible, for simply, justice isn`t. You do the wrong deed, you get punished. You do something good, you are rewarded. It`s a simple rule on which the justice was once based. But, just like in real world, and also in ASOIAF, nothing is so simple. And while justice is so perverted in Westeros, Stannis remains one of so few that actually have sense about it.

Two futures and both proved true

I always laugh when I think about this. It just proves how prophecies and visions are sometimes completely futile work to decipher. Melisandre`s vision of Renly dying near Storm`s End, and his attack at Stannis`s forces at Blackwater bay proved both right. But, how could they? Well, simply, Melisandre had a vision, she saw glimpse of future, but she didn`t see the deceit. She didn`t recognize the change and Garlan. Here we talk about prophecies about events that are about to happen, but the essential question is how reliable any vision truly is. What anyone has seen can be, just like in this case, something so ordinary. In our pursuit to decipher each prophecy, we have forgotten the cardinal rule. Trust your earthly instincts when you deal with mystical. Just like Davos again and again saw through Melisandre, we should be able to see through some of the prophecies and visions we have.

It always comes down to one thing

When Jaime in ASOS, told Brienne that they`ll always return to Aerys when they discuss Jaime, he was more than right. For Tyrion it was his appearance, for Jon, his bastard status, and for Davos, his smuggler history. Analyzing last chapter, I stated that Davos knows who he is, and that he knows how lords look at him – like nothing more than a smuggler. But to see his beloved King looking at him like that was a huge disappointment for Davos. He finally saw that the man, who made a knight out of him, still looks at him as a smuggler. And that hurt Davos a lot. But although he feels sadness and anger towards Melisandre, Davos accepts the mission. Not for the King, or for himself. He did that for his children. So once Stannis wins the Throne, his children would rise high. Like Stannis said to him `a hero and a smuggler`, Davos is both. He has been seen that way the beginning of his journey in ASOIAF, and he is that at the end. From Stannis`s justice at the end of Robert`s rebellion to Manderly`s mission, Davos remained both things – a hero and a smuggler. For sometimes good doesn`t exclude the bad, nor vice versa.

Brightest flame and darkest shadow

Before I start on analyzing shadows and their relevance to the story, I would just give you something to think about. The brightest flame casts the darkest shadow. Could this be the reference to Targaryen insanity, with possible parallel with Aerion Brighflame and his infamous madness which became legendary in the years to come? Could this line be related to Targaryens and their power? Or was it just a happy coincidence?

Shadows play important role in the Game of thrones. We heard of Tyrion`s shadow, Varys described power as shadow on the wall, and we know how Stannis`s literal shadow gave him advantage. We know what LF said about secret daggers, and we saw what the best way to play the Game is. It is my opinion that Game of thrones is actually one big game of shadows and catching it for some seems so impossible, that at the end, they lose. Playing the Game, is dealing with something unattainable and mysterious, something that can`t be seen by mere eyes. The other aspect is of course religious aspect of R`hllor. The philosophical debate whether the shadows are servants of light or darkness is open for discussion. For me, shadows are neither light nor darkness, for they can`t exist without both elements. Lighter than darkness, and darker than sun, shadow actually represents the grey element between two opposites.

He knew that shadow. As he knew the man who’d cast it. Alas, the truth

Oh, Davos suspected this. He felt something was wrong, that his King is no longer the man he used to be. But, finally, with the last line, he saw the truth with his simple, ordinary eyes. And everything clicked. This is the moment in which Davos realized what happened to Renly, and why is Stannis so tormented and sickly. His speculation and feelings were finally shaped in front of his eyes, and Davos faced the truth in its harshest form. From that moment, nothing will ever be the same. For just like with Stark kids, Davos`s ideals broke into million small pieces, and once spotless image of just, true King became tainted with R`hllor magic.

[Fire Eater]

Nice work, Mladen.

Two futures and both proved true

I always laugh when I think about this. It just proves how prophecies and visions are sometimes completely futile work to decipher. Melisandre`s vision of Renly dying near Storm`s End, and his attack at Stannis`s forces at Blackwater bay proved both right. But, how could they? Well, simply, Melisandre had a vision, she saw glimpse of future, but she didn`t see the deceit. She didn`t recognize the change and Garlan. Here we talk about prophecies about events that are about to happen, but the essential question is how reliable any vision truly is. What anyone has seen can be, just like in this case, something so ordinary. In our pursuit to decipher each prophecy, we have forgotten the cardinal rule. Trust your earthly instincts when you deal with mystical. Just like Davos again and again saw through Melisandre, we should be able to see through some of the prophecies and visions we have.

Melisandre doesn't seem to understand the first rule of prophecy: what is foreseen will occur. Any actions taken to forestall it might actually end up guaranteeing it. By killing Renly, she only contributed to the events leading up to her vision.

My niece Delena was his mother

Florent spoke in the past tense as if Edric had died. That isn't the last time Edric had been spoken of that way.

"I'm a princess too," Shireen announced, "but I never had a sister. I used to have a cousin once, before he sailed away. He was just a bastard, but I liked him.

Edric will die.

[Harlaw's Book]

Davos II, ACOK

“Last year they were Robert’s men. A moon ago they were Renly’s. This morning they are yours. Whose will they be on the morrow?”

.

This is a line I think about lot in subsequent chapters. Probably the strongest instance of it was during ADWD when Barristan considers the worth of Yronwood and Drinkwater. Barristan thinks Drinkwater, the guy defending his friend and prince after said prince dies, isn't worth much. But Yronwood, the guy who pretty quickly agrees to go from Quentyn's to Barristan's guy, is true steel. During the whole exchange I couldn't help thinking, "Davos would think the opposite." Davos and Barristan reaching opposite conclusions makes everyone wanting Barristan to be on their side more comical to me. I'd rather have the Onion Knight (unless jousting was involved).

"Yet they require me to make them true." This thought has convinced me that Davos is one of the most knowledgeable persons on how prophecies work in ASOIAF.

[IRON BANK]

Great Job MLADEN!!! Always liked Davos a straight forward, but yet cautious man. Someone who is making movement upward in a society that does not allow such things to happen often. Also it seems that Davos in this chapter has alot of 2nd thoughts about the relation ships between; Stannis Mel and the Old gods and the red one.

[Mladen]

Nice work, Mladen.

I don`t know. I tried. Analysis in 4 hours isn`t the best course of action. This isn`t my finest work, but it will serve its purpose to move the thread...

Melisandre doesn't seem to understand the first rule of prophecy: what is foreseen will occur. Any actions taken to forestall it might actually end up guaranteeing it. By killing Renly, she only contributed to the events leading up to her vision.

Just like Davos said that prophecies needed him for fulfillment. It`s all about us making them happen. We see it with Cersei, Rhaegar, Dany... People who hear the prophecy or have a vision will do something to set things in motion that ultimately will lead to the fulfillment. As you said, Melisandre`s actions made the second vision true.

Edric will die.

Nice catch. I have to say I don`t think of Edric that much, but he is some sort of Chekhov`s gun (another one, yes), but I can`t say he fits into any of my ideas or predictions.

Great Job MLADEN!!! Always liked Davos a straight forward, but yet cautious man. Someone who is making movement upward in a society that does not allow such things to happen often. Also it seems that Davos in this chapter has alot of 2nd thoughts about the relation ships between; Stannis Mel and the Old gods and the red one.

Thanks. In the last chapter`s analysis, we spoke about LF and Davos being complete opposite of each other. Davos has much nobler motivations than LF, and he is always aware of who he is. LF is always reminded of his birth, Davos is always aware of it.

[The Sleeper]

I thought it is an interesting little bit that the man who is defending his grey nature demonstrates outright horror for what he and Melisandre is about to do, while Melisandre who makes claims to virtue espouses the end justifies the means philosophy. In the same vein Davos expresses appreciation for Penrose's integrity while Melisandre calls for his death. A very distinct philosophy there for Davos a good man is determined by his actions, for Melisandre by which side he is on.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Nice write up, Mladen!

There are two lines in this chapter that may be very important in Stannis' future:

Only Melisandre kept pace, bearing the great standard of the fiery heart with the crowned stag within. As if it had been swallowed whole.

and

The day I need military counsel from a Lysene brigand is the day I put off my crown and take the black.

Now we see Stannis weakened, "half a corpse" due to his "close encounters of the third kind" with the lord of light, but later, at the Wall and then afar from Melisandre's influence, he seems to be regaining some of his strength. Could there be an alternative future for Stannis, other than being consumed by his crown?

True loyal men recognize each other. Davos' respect for Ser Ser Cortney Penrose is reciprocal; He ignores all the turncloack lords, he will speak to them only to insult them, but greets Davos with respect. Stannis himself values the supporters of Joffrey and Robb more than Renly's. Yet, despite Donal Noye's opinion on him, Stannis is not unable of (some) flexibility, as much as he dislikes it. Davos may be the only person who really knows Stannis.

A shadow is draftly defined as follows:

A shadow is an area where direct light from a light source cannot reach due to obstruction by an object that blocks the light.

The shape of this area is the projection of that object and it depends on their relative positioning.

I thought that the definition of shadow is important as, in a way, it contradicts both Melisandre's and Vary's beliefs.

A shadow cannot exist in total darkness, yes, but the light must be blocked to create a shadow. A shadow is not the child of, solely, fire as she says. It's the child of both light and non-light (ie darkness).

Generally, Melisandres' greatest problem is the lack of perspective (again, an issue of optics!) as it is shown in their arguments on whether it's the light or the darkness that protects them.

As for Varys, and the "shadow on the wall", well, power is real. The shadow requires an object and how long, short, wide or narrow a shadow is created, is merely a matter of positioning. You cannot grab the shadow, but you can remove, reposition or even replace the object that casts it...

ETA: and let's not forget that the size of a shadow -under the same conditions- is proportional to the size of the object.

ETA2: Though Varys most probably knows, judging by how he positions his puppets in his shadow theater, but tells Tyrion only the part that he wants to hear.

[Lummel]

Are you doing this reread on your own now Mladen?

A disturbing chapter. Follows on from Davos I with how absolutely dependent on Stannis Davos is and how that shapes his attitude and language towards Stannis. Later when Brienne swears to serve Catelyn, Catelyn swears not to require Brienne to do anything dishonourable - Stannis doesn't recognise any such restriction on what he asks of Davos. "would a good man be doing this" - his service cause him to violate his moral code, but this is what keeps him a knight and protects his family from being smallfolk again - and from what we see in ASOIAF you really don't want to be smallfolk.

A couple of others have mentioned the flaming heart - well fire consumes and ice preserves as Maester Aemon will say! We see in the physical description of Stannis the results of the Faustian bargain he has made with Melisandre - he is being burnt up from within and consumed.

It was mentioned above that Davos is a kind of anti-Littlefinger, but there is an interesting Littlefinger connection to Stannis: "I was in my tent when Renly died, and when I woke my hands were clean", Lord Baelish is the other one who likes to keep his hands clean as he explains to Sansa towards the end of ASOS. However this contrasts absolutely with the conversation between Jon and Maester Aemon in Jon VIII in which Jon's bloody hands become a symbol of accepting responsibility (very nicely explored in length by Ragnorak) and accepting the consequences of your actions in the world. It's a symbol that is used with different characters throughout ASOIAF (much like the onion) and its interesting to see Lord Baelish and Stannis here together as evading their responsibility.

The half rotten onion gets picked up by Sam in ASOS who cuts out the rot and eats the rest - such is m'lord of Tarly's response to Melisandre's philosophising!

Misinterpretation of prophecy - already a theme. Also it is a moonless night out there at sea by Storm's End, that's got an important feel to it.

[SeanF]

I've always thought of Davos as the proverbial angel on Stannis's shoulder with Melisandre being his counterpart, the devil, red being her color notwithstanding. Unsurprisingly, the angel is a modest, unassuming man who offers cautions and hard thruths while the devil is an exotic seductress assuring of a grand destiny and the righteousness of their cause. Melisandre coming off as nothing less than an evil witch for most of the books reinforces that image. Her own POV however, reveals a startingly different picture. Melisandre is a true believer and her cause is no less noble than the salvation of life itself. Therefore three elements of an intriguing picture take shape. Stannis, a man whose desire to do what is right is almost a compulsion and his two closest advisors , who have radically different ides for what right is and how it is achieved, engage in a struggle as Stannis's consciense and drive, respectively.

Still, for round one these two stand in the sidelines and the struggle is fought between Cressen and Selyse, where realism and moderation collide with arrogance and ambition. There is an interesting contradiction here. Cressen is a servant, supposedly detouched from the Lord he serves while Selyse is Stannis's wife. Yet, we see that Cressen is his actual family the one who cares for him and is worried for his soul. Selyse is basically a stranger to Stannis who is intertwined with him through social convention. It is Selyse however who echoes Stannis's feelings of being owed to and empowered by her blind faith in Melisandre accepts no compromise. The course has already been set.

Melisandre is more ambiguous than that, although when I read ACOK for the first time, I was sure she was unequivocally evil. She's not always trying to persuade Stannis to do evil, and unlike a devil, she does seem to have his best interests at heart. I certainly see Davos as his good angel, but I'd say his bad angel is Ser Axel Florent, who tries to persuade him to massacre the innocent inhabitants of Crab island, in a later chapter. Melisandre actually thinks that she's keeping Stannis on the morally correct path.

[Mladen]

Are you doing this reread on your own now Mladen?

No, but one member abandoned us due to busy schedule, and I had to act quickly, so this analysis is maybe short of few details, but I thought that through discussion we`ll talk about it. If you know someone interested in the Reread, please let me know. With Animal projects and this one, my hands are full...

A disturbing chapter. Follows on from Davos I with how absolutely dependent on Stannis Davos is and how that shapes his attitude and language towards Stannis. Later when Brienne swears to serve Catelyn, Catelyn swears not to require Brienne to do anything dishonourable - Stannis doesn't recognise any such restriction on what he asks of Davos. "would a good man be doing this" - his service cause him to violate his moral code, but this is what keeps him a knight and protects his family from being smallfolk again - and from what we see in ASOIAF you really don't want to be smallfolk.

Interesting parallel. Here we see how honor has so little with duty, and that man doesn`t neccessarily has to be both dutiful and honorable. Another great parallel with Stannis is actually Aerys, who tainted the white cloaks of most famous Knights with his insane orders. That line from Aerys` Kingsguard to Davos and Brienne is what unites thematically battle between duty and honor.

A couple of others have mentioned the flaming heart - well fire consumes and ice preserves as Maester Aemon will say! We see in the physical description of Stannis the results of the Faustian bargain he has made with Melisandre - he is being burnt up from within and consumed.

This is brilliant. A while ago, I had this theory about Wall being like a Safe house for Targaryens to be psychologically sane. I think we`ll have the same situation with Stannis, as we had it with Aemon, only vice versa. Aemon`s sanity was preserved during long years on Wall, and was challenged once he abandoned it. Stannis` health was severly damaged, given his TArgaryen roots, and Melisandre by him, we can`t exclude that Stannis` dreams were equal to Targaryen dreams of fire, but at the Wall, and later in Winterfell, he seems better and better.

As always, Lummel, you really give us a lot to think about. Thanks my friend.

[Blisscraft]

"Ser Corney Penrose wore no armor." - This is a gesture not only of defiance, but also one of fearlessness. Penrose, lovely name, is mightier than the swords and armor that Stannis and his men have donned. It will take more than a show of force to compel his surrender. In a way, not being armed in the face of Stannis' show of armor is more courageous than Penrose's retort to Mel: "May the Others bugger your Lord of Light. . . and wipe his arse with that rag you bear" and the several other nasty comments he has to say to the armed to the teeth Lords and Knights before him. It's no wonder he challenges Stannis to single combat. Davos calls him "stubborn," but understands that he "keeps faith."

Davos does wear armor, but he doesn't wear it well. "It made him feel cumbered and foolish. . ."

Davos, ever the outsider, the onion knight unused to the weight of armor, relies upon his inner wits and strength to join Stannis on the field. Part of Davos' internal armor, which he wears very well, is his ability to speak to truth to Stannis. Davos is no angel. He is a man. His greatest strengths are his insight, compassion, and truthfulness. These qualities his gives completely to Stannis because Stannis values them. (Thank goodness Stannis does!).

In some ways, Davos, like Penrose, is "stubborn" and "keeps faith." Men like Penrose and Davos are not inconstant sychophants, serving only to please whomever is in charge or in power. Davos and Penrose are men who serve whether their service is pleasing to those in power or not. That takes courage which both men seem to have in spades. (Just like the shape of Penrose's beard).

Do I dare eat a peach? - Stannis, particularly in this chapter is very like Prufrock. From his self doubt and guilt, which Davos seems to mend, "'Do I dare?' And 'Do I dare?'" to Stannis' "bald spot in the middle of my hair."

The peach is a delicate fruit. Although it has a soft, yet protective skin, it yields easily and give up its flesh with little struggle. It certainly has become a metaphor for Renly and Stannis' guilt regarding his "untimely" death at the hands of who knows who. Davos detects Stannis' guilt easily and he feels it in his "phantom" fingertips. Perhaps Davos feels it there, in those fingertips because, there is something unreal about Stannis' guilt. This is perhaps best expressed by Stannis when he insists upon "taking" Storm's End because: "it will be said that I was defeated here. . . Men do not love me as they loved my brothers. They follow me because they fear me . . . and defeat is death to fear." (my emphasis).

Stannis cannot be defeated at Storm's End for another reason and that is because he held it during Robert's Rebellion. The reason he held it was because his bacon (onion?) was saved by Davos.

More later. . .