Is Dany Going Mad?

[SeanF]

You could say this about several characters though, not just ones with Targ blood. There are other characters that aren't in the best state of mind, like, Cersei, Jaime, Theon, even Arya.

For sure. You can't say that some characters are mad, and others sane, any more than you can in real life. People can suffer from all sorts of mental illnesses, and yet function perfectly well in real life. Equally, people who are subjected to the kinds of horrific experiences that some of Martin's characters go through can develop mental illness. I've suffered from clinical depression in the past, and it would be astonishing if the same thing didn't happen to some characters.

[Ser Oswell]

She is well on her way. Besides a little bit of madness might just be what she needs to get things done.

And obsessing over prophecies was the undoing of Targs like Aegon V, brightflame , Rheagar etc.

[David Selig]

There is zero textual evidence to suggest that Dany is going insane. None whatsoever.

This.

In the 167 or so reincarnations of this thread I've read I've never seen any decent evidence posted to support the claim that Dany is going insane.

[danm_999]

Too soon to tell.

Though the episodes of sporadic and uncontrollable anger she begins to have in ASoS certainly sound like the same taint that afflicted Aerys and Viserys. Doesn't help that she usually invokes draconic imagery when it happens. Wake the dragon indeed.

[Master Forel's Fro]

For sure. You can't say that some characters are mad, and others sane, any more than you can in real life. People can suffer from all sorts of mental illnesses, and yet function perfectly well in real life. Equally, people who are subjected to the kinds of horrific experiences that some of Martin's characters go through can develop mental illness. I've suffered from clinical depression in the past, and it would be astonishing if the same thing didn't happen to some characters.

Arya suffered more at least Dany didn't see her family's slaughter, why isn't there as many "arya the mad" threads?

[C0bR]

Arya suffered more at least Dany didn't see her family's slaughter, why isn't there as many "arya the mad" threads?

She is on a dark path, but hardly mad.

[Master Forel's Fro]

She is on a dark path, but hardly mad.

I guess madness resides where men believe it resides.

[oba]

Let's look at a few things from GoT and consider what some characters would think of her...

Believes her unborn son will rule the world.

Tyrion: Crazy

Littlefinger:Crazy

Tywin: Crazy

Ned:Crazy

Thinks it's a good idea to let a woman whose whole village has just been pillaged tend to her injured husband... the man responsible the the woman's situation.

Tyrion: Stupid

Littlefinger:Naive

Tywin:Stupid

Ned:Crazy

Puts priceless dragon eggs, her dead husband, and the woman she previously freed on a pyre then walks into the flames. (Yes, the outcome was good, but...)

Tyrion:Crazy

Littlefinger:Crazy

Tywin:Crazy

Ned:Crazy

Dany has had the misfortune of every crazy action she has taken being rewarded with positive results. When that trend ends she will snap.

Couldn't we evaluate other characters' actions that way and describe their actions as "crazy"?

On the surface, Bran believing it's a good idea to travel beyond the Wall with 2 crannogchildren and a mentally challenged man because of dreams involving a 3-eyed crow doesn't sound all that reasonable, either.

Stannis' decision to lay siege to Storm's End seemed, on the surface, like an act designed to lead him and thousands of his soldiers to certain death. He did so out of a belief in the power of prophecy.

Without placing it in context, one can say that Jaime, one-handed and one of Westeros' most hunted men, went back to Harrenhal through a war zone because he had a bad dream.

Yet the sanity of none of these characters is questioned because it seems as if, when it comes to them, we recognize that this is a fantasy novel and that magic and prophecy exist in this setting.

[caravaggio]

Couldn't we evaluate other characters' actions that way and describe their actions as "crazy"? There are certainly other characters this could be said of... Cersei and Theon come to mind.

On the surface, Bran believing it's a good idea to travel beyond the Wall with 2 crannogchildren and a mentally challenged man because of dreams involving a 3-eyed crow doesn't sound all that reasonable, either.

More than one person in this scene has visions/etc that Bran should go North. Jojen's and Bran's visions have already been proven to be valid at this point. PLus Bran is a little kid who is easily manipulated by a super old bastard Targ/Tree.

Stannis' decision to lay siege to Storm's End seemed, on the surface, like an act designed to lead him and thousands of his soldiers to certain death. He did so out of a belief in the power of prophecy.

Stannis is at war and of course he wants what he believes is his by rights. Again, at this point Mel's prophecies have already been proven true so it isn't a huge leap of faith on his part to go along with them.

Without placing it in context, one can say that Jaime, one-handed and one of Westeros' most hunted men, went back to Harrenhal through a war zone because he had a bad dream.

I'd say that's more guilt about what he knows is going to happen if he doesn't go back.

Yet the sanity of none of these characters is questioned because it seems as if, when it comes to them, we recognize that this is a fantasy novel and that magic and prophecy exist in this setting.

At the point Dany walks into that fire she has never had a vision or anything confirmed to her to be true. Unlike other characters you mentioned she doesn't have people around her telling her this is a good idea and it will be okay,quite the opposite. It is brilliant that it worked out for her, but she had to be a little mad to attempt it in the first place.

I'll ask again... How is Dany stepping into the pyre different than Aerion drinking the wildfire in that moment? They both believe they are indestructible because they are Targaryen. The results are different yes, but the state of mind leading up to them is similar.

Look, I think Rhaegar was a little crazy too, its just that Rhaegar's craziness was usually directed toward positive ends. Aery's on the other hand was crazy and destructive.

Dany is certainly a megalomaniac. She isn't the only one mind you.

Fantasies about power,relevence, and omnipotence... check,check,check.

Overestimation of power and beliefs... check,check.

[Morienthar]

Arya suffered more at least Dany didn't see her family's slaughter, why isn't there as many "arya the mad" threads?

Arya is a budding physcopath I think that is more or less understood.

[GoldenFleece]

At the point Dany walks into that fire she has never had a vision or anything confirmed to her to be true. Unlike other characters you mentioned she doesn't have people around her telling her this is a good idea and it will be okay,quite the opposite. It is brilliant that it worked out for her, but she had to be a little mad to attempt it in the first place.

I'll ask again... How is Dany stepping into the pyre different than Aerion drinking the wildfire in that moment? They both believe they are indestructible because they are Targaryen. The results are different yes, but the state of mind leading up to them is similar.

Look, I think Rhaegar was a little crazy too, its just that Rhaegar's craziness was usually directed toward positive ends. Aery's on the other hand was crazy and destructive.

Dany is certainly a megalomaniac. She isn't the only one mind you.

Fantasies about power,relevence, and omnipotence... check,check,check.

Overestimation of power and beliefs... check,check.

I guess you didn't read Dany's inner monologue where she constantly doubts herself and her actions? She isn't brimming with confidence in Meereen that's for sure. Isn't that opposite of a megalomaniac?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

What qualifies as mad? Is it "frothing at the mouth, torturing people to get a boner"? Then she isn't mad. On the other hand, Dany is sometimes delusional, makes some decisions a braindead monkey wouldn't consider smart, she orders torture out of pure emotion, with the rational argument against it a mere 30 seconds earlier. A couple of other decisions. Some are down to lack of education, some are just immature, some are dumb as shit, some are plain crazy.

So, what qualifies as mad?

Arya suffered more at least Dany didn't see her family's slaughter, why isn't there as many "arya the mad" threads?

Because hardly anybody disputes that Arya is mentally unstable. It's more of a "will she recover"? Which can only be answered by future books opposed to the question whether Dany is mad here and now, which can be discussed based on already released books.

[GoldenFleece]

This.

In the 167 or so reincarnations of this thread I've read I've never seen any decent evidence posted to support the claim that Dany is going insane.

This.

I think someone just said one day "Hey I think Dany's going mad" and people just clung to it for various reasons. I have seen some bizarre claims about Dany, but this is the most bizarre one. I guess it came about when she had those visions out in the Dothraki Sea after she eat some (possibly psychedelic) berries... I guess. I re-read ADWD recently, and I was purposely trying to find any hints of madness from Dany. All I found was a girl who was depressed to be honest.

Too soon to tell.

Though the episodes of sporadic and uncontrollable anger she begins to have in ASoS certainly sound like the same taint that afflicted Aerys and Viserys. Doesn't help that she usually invokes draconic imagery when it happens. Wake the dragon indeed.

Didn't Ned's older brother have that? I'm trying to rattle my brain trying to find an example of her going Viserys in ASoS and I honestly can't find one.

[caravaggio]

I guess you didn't read Dany's inner monologue where she constantly doubts herself and her actions? She isn't brimming with confidence in Meereen that's for sure. Isn't that opposite of a megalomaniac?

She is having a break down because this is the first time her expectations aren't matching reality. There is nothing to say a crazy person can't question themselves.

A historical figure who is often attributed as being a megalomaniac is Alexander the Great, so it isn't always the most terrible thing.

Dany could turn out to be the nicest Targaryen to ever live, but I think you are mistaken if you think Martin doesn't want us to at least question her sanity.

[Groat]

Arya is a budding physcopath I think that is more or less understood.

Uhh, not by me. Sorry to derail the thread but to say Arya is a budding psychopath has got to be the most crackpot thing I have ever heard. She doesn't take pleasure from killing or harming others. She's obsessed with revenge against the people who have hurt her and murdered her family, does that make her a psychopath? I just don't see where this comes from.

[GoldenFleece]

She is having a break down because this is the first time her expectations aren't matching reality. There is nothing to say a crazy person can't question themselves.

A historical figure who is often attributed as being a megalomaniac is Alexander the Great, so it isn't always the most terrible thing.

Dany could turn out to be the nicest Targaryen to ever live, but I think you are mistaken if you think Martin doesn't want us to at least question her sanity.

I didn't say a crazy person can't question themselves. I said a megalomaniac does not question themselves or has self doubts.

Including Dany herself which is a good sign. Mad people don't generally question their own sanity. At the moment I do not see any evidence for madness at all.

[GoldenFleece]

Uhh, not by me. Sorry to derail the thread but to say Arya is a budding psychopath has got to be the most crackpot thing I have ever heard. She doesn't take pleasure from killing or harming others. She's obsessed with revenge against the people who have hurt her and murdered her family, does that make her a psychopath? I just don't see where this comes from.

I think Groat, it is her general lack of empathy towards others and I actually love Arya.

[caravaggio]

I didn't say a crazy person can't question themselves. I said a megalomaniac does not question themselves or has self doubts.

Including Dany herself which is a good sign. Mad people don't generally question their own sanity. At the moment I do not see any evidence for madness at all.

Even Jorah thinks she is crazy when she walks into the pyre just as I'm sure people around Aerion thought he was crazy when he started drinking the wildfire.

[SeanF]

Even Jorah thinks she is crazy when she walks into the pyre just as I'm sure people around Aerion thought he was crazy when he started drinking the wildfire.

We don't know what was going through Aerion's mind at that point, although we do see his bizarre behaviour in the Hedge Knight. My impression of the pyre is that Dany is taking a calculated risk (as she did at Astapor) rather than doing something completely irrational.

[Belisarius09]

Yes, she is already mad and has been for quite some time.

"If I look back I am lost..."

Cause y'know, Quaithe is totally real, and people randomly appear on your ship in the middle of the sea in the middle of the night.

Mad King Aerys burned people alive because "the voices in his head to him to"

GRRM practically spells it out for us.

"Beware the perfumed seneschal"

She's just like her father, only worse because she has dragons and this time Jaime won't be there to stop the Targs from burning everyone alive in KL.

Lastly, LOL at all the Dany fans trying to justify crucifying people. Just wow.