Why Did The Hound Have Soft Spots for The Stark Daughters.

[Lord Ronin]

I think he finally started to see Joff's treatment of Sansa as being similar to his brother's treatment of himself. Seeing as how she was pretty much powerless to do anything about it. Maybe he helped, and I use the term loosely, Arya because he kind of cares for Sansa.

yes.

[Pearlthegirl]

“Joffrey said nothing, but a man strange to Arya, a tall knight with black hair and burn scars on his face, pushed forward in front of the prince. “This is your prince. Who are you to tell him he may not have an edge on his sword, ser?”

“Master-at-arms of Winterfell, Clegane, and you would do well not to forget it.”

“Are you training women here?” the burned man wanted to know.”

Excerpt From: George R. R. Martin. “A Game of Thrones.” Bantam Books, 1996. iBooks.

This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBookstore: https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/a-game-of-thrones/id419935229?mt=11

It's irony and character growth. At first, the Hound mocks "the training of women" and then he ends up being unofficial Master-at-arms for both the Stark girls. Teaching them both how to survive the drastically different environs of each of their cruel worlds.

[Humbler_than_anyone]

He seems to want Sansa for none PG reasons and I sensed the feeling he respected Arya somehow. It's hard not to, I guess, especially if you are someone like the Hound.

[Le Cygne]

This plus his growing love for sansa and perhaps his disquiet at Joffrey's increasing insanity may have triggered a change

That's a good point, Joffrey was always a mess, but he had gotten worse over the years, and the relationship had gone downhill. Even at the beginning of the series, Sandor was making Joffrey laugh like he always did with the "mummer's farce" so you got a glimpse at better days.

[MotherMerciless]

Season 1, episode 8, 6:20. Sansa is running for her life, Arya is doing the same. The Hound finds Sansa. Perfect acting. The two seconds of him looking at her reflect his true feelings for her, but he quickly assumes the mask of his role like a good dog.

Only saw this now.

[Le Cygne]

You mean when he finds Sansa. I think that may be my favorite of the whole series. GRRM wrote that one, also the Jaime/Brienne goodbye scene. Subtle.

[MotherMerciless]

You mean when he finds Sansa. I think that may be my favorite of the whole series. GRRM wrote that one, also the Jaime/Brienne goodbye scene. Subtle.

ooops yes.

So lovely isn't it? I love the Hound.

*edits*

[Le Cygne]

ooops yes.

So lovely isn't it? I love the Hound.

Me, too, book version, anyway. That was probably the only time in the series they were both truly the book characters, and they were so perfectly the book characters. Captured the dynamic completely. Also, it's a lovely scene, like you said. On the commentary, GRRM said it was "beautiful"! :)

[MotherMerciless]

Me, too, book version, anyway. That was probably the only time in the series they were both truly the book characters, and they were so perfectly the book characters. Captured the dynamic completely. Also, it's a lovely scene, like you said. On the commentary, GRRM said it was "beautiful"! :)

Oh, I didn't know this :-)

Silly that I did not notice, but then I did see season one before reading any of the books, so I wasn't really looking for it.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Maybe he misses his actual sister who was killed (by gregor IMO) when he was younger.

He see's alot of his sisters childhood innocence in sansa but also see's her being mistreated by a cruel man like his sister was.

I think this is the entirety of it, and all the overly-analytical shipping is just people reading their own romantic fantasies into the story.

The most important person in Sandor's life isn't Sansa, or Arya. It's Gregor, and what it was like being raised in a home with him. He dreams of killing him, and I don't think it is just because of what Gregor did to Sandor personally. The younger sister looks like an obvious connection to the Stark girls. He sees Sansa being abused, and thinks back to what happened to his own younger sister. He sees Arya alone, and protects her because again, it is a young girl that he can protect even though he couldn't protect his own sister.

That explains his actions without the creepiness of a man in his 20's lusting after a pre-pubescent little girl, and also explains his kindness (in his own way) towards Arya, which doesn't make sense if the connection with Sansa was romantic.

The commonality isn't that they are "parts of him" or "the light in the dark" or anything truly unique to them personally. It's just that they're little girls being abused, and need someone to help them.

[Aderyn the Sly]

I've always felt that Sandor's rough yet sympathetic treatment of the Stark girls had something to do with his sister that died. We know little of her other than she died when they were kids (and rumour has it Gregor had something to do with that) before RR and before their father died and Gregor came into his inheritance. Maybe she was a little like Sansa, with big dreams of what the world might hold. Maybe she was a little like Arya, defiant and clever.

I particularly like this line he gave Sansa:

A hound will die for you, but never lie to you. And he’ll look you straight in the face.

[Le Cygne]

I think this is the entirety of it, and all the overly-analytical shipping is just people reading their own romantic fantasies into the story.

The most important person in Sandor's life isn't Sansa, or Arya. It's Gregor, and what it was like being raised in a home with him. He dreams of killing him, and I don't think it is just because of what Gregor did to Sandor personally. The younger sister looks like an obvious connection to the Stark girls. He sees Sansa being abused, and thinks back to what happened to his own younger sister. He sees Arya alone, and protects her because again, it is a young girl that he can protect even though he couldn't protect his own sister.

That explains his actions without the creepiness of a man in his 20's lusting after a pre-pubescent little girl, and also explains his kindness (in his own way) towards Arya, which doesn't make sense if the connection with Sansa was romantic.

The commonality isn't that they are "parts of him" or "the light in the dark" or anything truly unique to them personally. It's just that they're little girls being abused, and need someone to help them.

Oh, because all of that I could keep you safe, pulling her closer for a kiss, wasn't romantic. If you don't think so, fine, but there are about a million women (and a lot of men, too) who disagree.

She's marriage age in Westeros, according to the author, in his world, she's an "adult." The official app said he was infatuated with her. The author said he knows readers want them to get together in the end and he said that's in the books. You don't have to like it, but that's the story.

In an extra feature, he doesn't even remember his sister.

[aceluby]

I think it's very complex. I think he had respect for Ned as a soldier. I think he has sympathy from his trials w/ his brother and his dead family. I think he truly hates Jeoffry, though understands who pays the bills. I think he has feelings for Sansa to some degree, though more as a protector vs a lover (IMO). I think he sees a lot of himself in Arya.

I think the Hound is one of the most complex characters in the series.

[Toshio.Keepiru]

That's not the same thing as Sandor wishing to murder his brother. Arya does not actively wish to kill any of her family members.

None of her family members treated her like the Mountain treated the Hound either. However, Sansa was probably verbally sarcastic in someways toward Arya if not actually cruel and Arya had no problem saying mean things back to her as I recall.

[Lonin]

I think this is the entirety of it, and all the overly-analytical shipping is just people reading their own romantic fantasies into the story.

The most important person in Sandor's life isn't Sansa, or Arya. It's Gregor, and what it was like being raised in a home with him. He dreams of killing him, and I don't think it is just because of what Gregor did to Sandor personally. The younger sister looks like an obvious connection to the Stark girls. He sees Sansa being abused, and thinks back to what happened to his own younger sister. He sees Arya alone, and protects her because again, it is a young girl that he can protect even though he couldn't protect his own sister.

That explains his actions without the creepiness of a man in his 20's lusting after a pre-pubescent little girl, and also explains his kindness (in his own way) towards Arya, which doesn't make sense if the connection with Sansa was romantic.

The commonality isn't that they are "parts of him" or "the light in the dark" or anything truly unique to them personally. It's just that they're little girls being abused, and need someone to help them.

:agree:

This is my preferred story line. However, grrm has all but come out and said that there is a romantic aspect. So, I have come to accept a possible romantic connotation, grudgingly :frown5:

[Le Cygne]

However, grrm has all but come out and said that there is a romantic aspect.

He did, but he didn't have to. It's all there in the story.

Looking at just a fraction of their interactions/thoughts about each other in the books, follow the bouncing ball, there's all of this:

looking touching touching touching breasts naked cloak looking breasts little bird "singing" sex touching touching "singing" pretty touching touching touching looking little bird looking touching kissing bed touching little bird cloak missing awake in bed cloak kissing singing missing missing dreaming bed naked "singing" sex little bird pretty singing sweet wife little bird heart sobbing little bird pretty cloak singing sex heart kissing singing cloak marriage kissing...

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Oh, because all of that I could keep you safe, pulling her closer for a kiss, wasn't romantic. If you don't think so, fine, but there are about a million women (and a lot of men, too) who disagree.

I don't really care how many disagree. He didn't pull her close for a kiss, except in her 13 year old imagination. Those are inferences she's drawn from her own imagination, and GRRM has called her an "unreliable narrator" with respect to her memories of Sandor. And as GRRM himself has said, their relationship may not be viewed the same way by both of them. Here's his correspondence on that exact issue, from a fan inquiry in the So Spake Martin collection:

June 24, 1999

The Hound and Sansa

Submitted By: Moreta

Moreta12: I understand, I've heard your opinion on that. In ACOK, it seems that the relationship between the Hound and Sansa had romantic undertones. Is that true?

GeoRR: Well, read the book and decide for yourself.

Moreta12: I've read the book and I've debated those particular scenes with a few others. Half say that it's romantic and half say it's platonic. I've taken the romantic stance.

GeoRR: It could be very different things to each of those involved, mind you

So sure, there is a romantic undertone to their relationship on her end. But the question was what he sees in Sansa and Arya. Is he attracted to Arya? No. Then why help her at all? I think the better explanation is the younger sister one. It explains his treatment of both of them without the "29 year old guy lusting after the 13 year old who just had her first period" creep element.

She's marriage age in Westeros, according to the author, in his world, she's an "adult."

There is no "marriage age", other than the legal age of majority which is 16 for both boys and girls. Girls are considered marriageable based on when they flower. And Sansa flowered only just before Blackwater. So unless Sandor's alleged romantic feelings clicked on suddenly like a light switch coincidentally with her flowering, he's a perv.

Even according to the author himself, though such girls are marriagable and beddable, it is not common for them to habitually engage in sexual relations after that point. Usually a couple more years for that. Here's GRRM's exact words on that from SSM, again:

A boy in Westeros is considered to be a "man grown" at sixteen years. The same is true for girls. Sixteen is the age of legal majority, as twenty-one is for us. However, for girls, the first flowering is also very significant... and in older traditions, a girl who has flowered is a woman, fit for both wedding and bedding.

A girl who has flowered, but not yet attained her sixteenth name day, is in a somewhat ambigious position: part child, part woman. A "maid," in other words. Fertile but innocent, beloved of the singers.

In the "general Westerosi view," well, girls may well be wed before their first flowerings, for political reasons, but it would considered perverse to bed them. And such early weddings, even without sex, remain rare. Generally weddings are postponed until the bride has passed from girlhood to maidenhood.

Maidens may be wedded and bedded... however, even there, many husbands will wait until the bride is fifteen or sixteen before sleeping with them. Very young mothers tend to have significantly higher rates of death in childbirth, which the maesters will have noted.

Here's a link to SSM so you can look these up yourself. As you can see, these Sandor/Sansa debates have been going on a very long time.

http://www.westeros....M/Month/1999/10

I personally think being a protective older brother is a better role than being a perv, but hey, I'm not a 13 year old girl fantasizing a kiss that never happened.

The official app said he was infatuated with her.

I have no idea what the "official app" is, but it is not anything that GRRM has put together. It has zero weight in terms of what is actual fact versus fan speculation.

The author said he knows readers want them to get together in the end and he said that's in the books.

He has never, ever said that they "will get together", and that it is in the books. If you've got a link to that, post it. He has said that he knows there is some fan interest in that, that he put a bit of a romantic element in the story (which does NOT mean they both have those feelings) and he also knows it is a hotly debated topic.

[Le Cygne]

<snip>

First before I forget, he's nice to Arya because she's Sansa's sister. That's what everyone thinks. Just saying.

And secondly, your other point that Sandor thinks of Sansa like a sister is not based in the text. One chapter shows you that, and there's lots more where this came from. Blackwater takes place in Sansa's bed (where he is waiting for her). That's like when her breasts are bared so he can give her his cloak, why do you think the scene was written that way. And so on. He's clearly attracted to her.

Anyway, Sansa is looking for her true knight, and she literally runs right into Sandor.

He looks over her figure and tells her all a man needs is a woman:

"You look almost a woman... face, teats, and you're taller too, almost... ah, you're still a stupid little bird, aren't you? Singing all the songs they taught you... sing me a song, why don't you? Go on. Sing to me. Some song about knights and fair maids. You like knights, don't you?.. Do you like wine, little bird? True wine? A flagon of sour red, dark as blood, all a man needs. Or a woman."

Here's a visual of how he's looking at her (GRRM scripted this):

http://www.homeofthe.../108GoT0134.jpg

http://www.homeofthe.../108GoT0137.jpg

He says she's pretty (he does that often) and wants her to look at him and asks for a "song" (sexual double entendre):

"I never got my song... But one day I'll have a song from you, whether you will it or no."

"I will sing it for you gladly."

Sandor Clegane snorted. "Pretty thing, and such a bad liar. A dog can smell a lie, you know. Look around you, and take a good whiff. They're all liars here... and every one better than you."

He touches her four times (he also does that often):

She was racing headlong down the serpentine steps when a man lurched out of a hidden doorway. Sansa caromed into him and lost her balance. Iron fingers caught her by the wrist before she could fall. "It's a long roll down the serpentine, little bird. Want to kill us both?"

One.

The Hound gave her a push, oddly gentle, and followed her down the steps.

Two.

"That one is nothing to fear, girl." The Hound laid a heavy hand on her shoulder.

Three.

"A hound will die for you, but never lie to you. And he’ll look you straight in the face." He cupped her under the jaw, raising her chin, his fingers pinching her painfully.

Four.

And you asked for external evidence, so here's some that's recent and directly sourced to the author:

GRRM: I do know there's all these people out there who are, as they call themselves, the SanSan fans, who want to see Sandor and Sansa get together at the end. So that's interesting, too.

Tom Merritt: The TV show has sort of played with that a little and probably stoked those fires, I would think.

GRRM: Oh, sure. And I've played with it in the books.

Tom Merritt: Yeah, yeah.

GRRM: There's something there. But it's still interesting to see how many people have responded to it.

Veronica Belmont: I'm not going to say that that hasn't crossed my mind.

http://transcriptvid...tWg7LPq4nE.html

Ages (2011):

"They didn't have this concept of adolescence or the teenage years. You were a child or you were an adult. And the onset of sexual maturity meant you were an adult."

http://shelf-life.ew...e-with-dragons/

Official WOIAF app:

Riding with King Robert to Winterfell, Sandor first meets Sansa Stark and becomes infatuated with her.

The show guys have also said a couple of times that he's attracted to her. It's kind of obvious.

[idler]

With Arya she is his hostage. He was partially motivated by money. Kidnapping a little girl is easier than making money the honest way I guess.

I daresay he's motivated by everything but money. We know The Hound took the winner's prize of the Tourney of The Hand, 40 000 Gold Dragons. We know a single Gold Dragon converts to about 13,000 Euros

http://awoiaf.wester...l_Life_Currency

So The Hound got about 520 Mio. €, making him one of the richest men alive in Westeros. He might have had only a few hundred Gold Dragons with him when the BwB took him prisoner and robbed that sum from him, but he sure has a possibility to control the bulk of his fortune. This story he tells Arya that he wants to ransom her and ask the King in the North for a job is phony. It becomes clear that he has a soft spot for Arya, too, when they begin to interact on equal terms and he starts to call her "she-wolf".

[DogLover]

First before I forget, he's nice to Arya because she's Sansa's sister. That's what everyone thinks. Just saying.

And secondly, your other point that Sandor thinks of Sansa like a sister is not based in the text. One chapter shows you that, and there's lots more where this came from. Blackwater takes place in Sansa's bed (where he is waiting for her). That's like when her breasts are bared so he can give her his cloak, why do you think the scene was written that way. And so on. He's clearly attracted to her.

Anyway, Sansa is looking for her true knight, and she literally runs right into Sandor.

He looks over her figure and tells her all a man needs is a woman:

Here's a visual of how he's looking at her (GRRM scripted this):

http://www.homeofthe.../108GoT0134.jpg

http://www.homeofthe.../108GoT0137.jpg

He says she's pretty (he does that often) and wants her to look at him and asks for a "song" (sexual double entendre):

He touches her four times (he also does that often):

One.

Two.

Three.

Four.

And you asked for external evidence, so here's some that's recent and directly sourced to the author:

http://transcriptvid...tWg7LPq4nE.html

Ages (2011):

http://shelf-life.ew...e-with-dragons/

Official WOIAF app:

The show guys have also said a couple of times that he's attracted to her. It's kind of obvious.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: