Should tipping be banned?

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte]

I dislike tipping. It make me feel uncomfortable and like I am going to be judged by the server. Or finding out after the fact that there was an expectation of tipping that I didn't know about so I stiffed someone. I would much rather be charged a fee and pay it. Done.

:agree:

It would make things so much easier. It feels like restaurants are being deceptive with food prices cause it costs so much more with tipping.

Even in my country where millions of people are starving, 10% minimum tipping is getting to be the norm :(

[Penguin king]

In Minnesota, tipped employees must be paid the same minimum wage as any other job.

I live in a rural low wage earning area and one of my friends tends bar on the weekends. He makes about 200-300 dollars in tips a night. His contract at work pays him about $500 for the entire week. I have never understood the expectation of tipping when YOU walk up to the bar yourself and get a drink.

If the bartender is making you difficult cocktails all night, then I can see why a tip might be appropriate, but if they're just handing you the occasional bottle of lager from a fridge, then I don't think they've really earned a gratuity.

[str8 outta Old Town]

Why does everyone keep saying "server", what a horrible word. It makes me think of slavery.

Surely the more professional "waiter" is better.

[Greg]

Why does everyone keep saying "server", what a horrible word. It makes me think of slavery.

Surely the more professional "waiter" is better.

Server is gender neutral and therefore IMO, a better term.

[ThinkerX]

]This is something I've wondered about every time I got a pizza delivered. So you got both the delivery fee, which is almost always above 10% AND the tip?

For me, back around 2000ish, the delivery fee was $1.25 per delivery, or not quite enough to pay for a gallon of gas. Minimum wage + delivery fee + tips worked out to around $14 - $15 an hour...which is what the IRS calculated it at as well. Report significantly less than that, and it would automatically get adjusted upwards. I remember a few idiot drivers who tried to claim they made NOTHING in tips, which brought down BOTH Corporate and the IRS.

A really good Friday or Saturday night, I expected to walk out of that shop a hundred plus bucks richer in greenbacks than I walked in - after buying gas. Most nights, though, my cash take was about half that. On the other hand, more than once I had to drop several hundred bucks into the vehicle to deliver the pizzas with. No vehicle, no job. I ended up with a driveway full of $500 specials (junker cars). Insurance companies don't like pizza delivery drivers.

I went back to pizza delivery for a year or so in the wake of the 2008 crash. Delivery fee had gone up to $1.75.

Another thing to keep in mind is the corporate nitwits in charge of most fast food chains (and retail in general) absolutely will not let anybody get sufficient hours to count as 'full time' if they can avoid it. The usual max is 30 or 32 hours (I think the law changed on this at some point). And overtime...more than eight hours a shift or 40 hours a week...yikes! You'd think the dang world had stopped spinning from the fuss they'd raise when that happened. Kinda reinforced my view, that by and large corporate execs are total and utter scum.

Early on in my pizza delivery career we were doing a bit of after hours remodeling and heavy cleaning. The shift supervisor (a decent person in an utterly thankless position) asked if I'd hang out and help a bit. Not knowing corporates phobia with overtime back then, I agreed, and ended up with...maybe an hours worth of time and a half. When I showed up the next day, the store manager called me aside, and recited the conversation he'd had with the franchise owner over that wee bit of overtime. His words were to the effect of:

'How in the g*d*m hell am I supposed to put my grandkids through college if I have to pay these f*cking no good lowlife delivery drivers overtime!' All this over something like ten or twelve bucks, if that.

Towards the end of my career, Corporate forced out/fired the one truly competent cook we had at that shop because she was getting too many hours and had been in place for so long the pay raises actually meant anything. The manager at the time (a jerk sent from corporate) actually gloated over the money running her off saved. He never did make the connection between that and the sudden decline in pizza quality, or the way customers started avoiding the place.

[sologdin]

Kinda reinforced my view, that by and large corporate execs are total and utter scum.

it's not a moral defect; it's capitalism.

[ThinkerX]

]it's not a moral defect; it's capitalism.

Communist Party bosses tend to be cut from the same cloth: EVERYBODY else exists to be exploited, though they try to hide this with reams of confusing data.

[Shingo]

I would think people wouldn't want it banned because I'm sure if a worker knows they have a chance of being tipped at the end they might provide better service?

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte]

Kinda reinforced my view, that by and large corporate execs are total and utter scum.

it's not a moral defect; it's capitalism.

The difference between communism and capitalism is that capitalists aren't hypocrites who pretend to work for the better of the working class, then fuck them in the arse the next day and sell them out.

Read a book called The White Tiger and see the evils of communism. There is also Atlas Shrugged ofc.

Capitalism is the lesser of the two evils, there is a reason why the communist system has been found to work only among tribal people living in the jungle and not normal people.

It seems that you genuinely believe in the garbage that you are spouting, so I hope:

I hope you mend your ways before your ideals utterly corrupt you.

[TrueMetis]

The difference between communism and capitalism is that capitalists aren't hypocrites who pretend to work for the better of the working class, then fuck them in the arse the next day and sell them out.

Read a book called The White Tiger and see the evils of communism. There is also Atlas Shrugged ofc.

Capitalism is the lesser of the two evils, there is a reason why the communist system has been found to work only among tribal people living in the jungle and not normal people.

It seems that you genuinely believe in the garbage that you are spouting, so I hope:

I hope you mend your ways before your ideals utterly corrupt you.

Anybody else find that insulting?

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte]

I'm not insulting them, I'm merely pointing out that communism can't be implemented on a larger scale without fucking up, just look at the USSR, Maoist china etc.

[str8 outta Old Town]

I'm not insulting them, I'm merely pointing out that communism can't be implemented on a larger scale without fucking up, just look at the USSR, Maoist china etc.

Kerala, Chile, Nicaragua, the Spanish Republic. Also, Cuba is by no means any worse than similar capitalist countries (Dominican Republic, Mexico). Read a little less Rand, and a little more history.

[Errant Bard]

It's rather funny to see anyone tell Solo to read more about communism, that's for sure.

[Maltaran]

I would think people wouldn't want it banned because I'm sure if a worker knows they have a chance of being tipped at the end they might provide better service?

I would expect them to provide good service regardless, since that is their actual job.

[Eyron]

Putting the service fee (say 15%) on the bill could lead to the servers actually getting a lot more, at least in the beginning, and possibly some time down the line too.

Firstly, social customs don't go away very easily so many customers would continue tipping. Some customers would perhaps think that the service fee goes down the wrong pockets and make sure their tip go to the staff. Perhaps lowering the standard tip to 5-10%, for convenience. Or perhaps simply a 5% for extra good service.

Secondly, people who tip big do that for other reasons than meeting the norm of 15% and will likely continue to over-tip. Combined, I think would lead to increase in tips total for the staff.

Thirdly, it's not unlikely that this new service fee eventually leads to a new price standard and tipping is restored to 'normality' long term, which would lead to significant increases for the staff. The base for the percentage would be higher.

This is simple speculation, but I don't see why a standard service fee would be worse for the staff. I am one of those that tip here where we don't have the same tipping culture as the US, just because I used to work in this business and think the staff deserve it and I want to expect future service to be high. On the very few occasions when I have had poor service I make a point of tipping very low, but still tip.

[Penguin king]

It seems that you genuinely believe in the garbage that you are spouting, so I hope:

I hope you mend your ways before your ideals utterly corrupt you.

LOL. I feel exactly the same about anyone listing Atlas Shrugged as recommended reading ;)

[Khal Pono]

I hate this Mr. Pink shit.

Tip your damn servers. You're not going to start a revolution by stiffing someone who would not make a liveable wage without tips. Have a beer at home if you don't want to tip the bartender.

Shame on you.

[Khal Pono]

Anybody else find that insulting?

Well I wouldn't quite phrase it the way he did but... there's a really good book called Sex at Dawn.that makes the case that all the evils of modern society (violence, sexism, greed, etc) ultimately stem from the invention of agriculture.

Pre agriculture (in hunter-gatherer societies) there is strong evidence that classlessness and equality did exist. Not because people were more moral at that time than they are now, but because there was an evolutionary imperative to share everything and to protect one another, or else you would not survive.

When agriculture began, and one landowner/lord could horde and protect his food supply (not to mention his slaves and his women!) everything changed for the worse...

[mcb]

On the other hand, you'd face huge objections, not least from the servers themselves, who typically make out far better on tips than they would on wage. Food prices for dining out would rise sharply as the venue would now be on the hook for more wages and would definitely pass those prices on to the consumer. It would be harder (more expensive) to run a restaurant and so there would be fewer of them. Quality of service would take a dive -- not just because the direct-incentive system is gone, but also because bartenders and waitstaff make significant money, so better workers tend to seek out the job.

Sorry - it would be more expensive to eat out, but at the same time both the owner of the venue and his employees would make less money? That does not compute.

Anyway, I'm in the "tips are silly" camp. Just recalculate the prices, so you can afford to pay your employees, it's not fucking communism! I'd prefer straightforward "the meal cost $24", than current (in the tip-worshiping countries) "the meal cost $20, but you're expected to pay $24, otherwise you're a jerk". Plus, a customer can over- or undertip for a zillion conceivable reasons (he wants to impress his date; he's just a cheap SOB; he had a good/bad day at work; or whatever else), which basically means that the waiter (but for some reason not the owner of the restaurant!) is expected to gamble on his living earnings every day.

Or, if it's such a great mechanism, why not spread it? The sticker price of a car should cover only manufacturing cost and a tiniest possible margin. The buyer would be expected (but not actually obligated to) pay 15-20% above that. The CEO of the motor company would make minimum wage plus his share of tips. Doesn't it sound fucking ridiculous?

[Happy Ent]

Firstly, social customs don't go away very easily so many customers would continue tipping.

I think that could from one day to the other. It just requires the US to move to a cash-free society, like (say) the Scandinavian countries.

You announce that you’re done, the waiter appears with a card reader with the correct amount for the meal typed in. You swipe your card. Done. (This is what I’m used to when not travelling to a tipping country like the US.)

(Weirdly, some Swedish restaurants have now started to not type in the correct amount on the machine, leaving it to me so that I could tip using my card if I wanted to. To signal the cultural difference I find that downright rude from the restaurant and it makes me want to eat there less.)

The biggest reason to resist that culture is of course tax evasion.