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Quaithe's Prophecy and Why do you think she's helping Daenerys?


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Yeah except Martin uses a period there, not a Semicolon, but Others is not capitalized. I call this a tease. Remember the undying, any specific part seem to fit.

Trust none of them, which makes perfect sense, stranger danger. They all have things they want from Dany, all of them want to use Dany, note that Mormont is with Tyrion, and she did not say watch out for him. Which is a good sign for Tyrion. And lets be honest, you can't ever really trust Tyrion, with little things sure, with some things yes, if he likes you and your good to him, you should be ok. But if he wants something from you, different story.

I sometimes wonder if the lion - Tyrion is untrustworthy in Quaithe's prophesy because he convinced the griffon - Aegon/JonCon to turn west instead of taking his army to Mereen in search of Daenerys. Had the Golden Company arrived at Mereen, I think the siege would have been dealt with more quickly and order restored so that Dany could plan her return to Westeros sooner. It would be kind of par for the course with Tyrion's bad luck lately, that trying to put himself in Dany's service might cause her and himself more problems.

As for "Aegon" he'd have to convince Daenerys that he's the real deal or at least be convincing enough that they'd rule together in some manner. Aegon has the Golden Company at his disposal and Dany has some portion of the Unsullied and an assortment of sell swords and knights, but more importantly, she has the dragons. They'd be pretty unstoppable together and that might have given Westerosi lords a good cause to jump ship, when Tommen's rule is so questionable.

As it is now, because Tyrion persuaded Aegon, Aegon is basically just a rival to Daenerys for the throne.

Downfall from what? She is half naked in the wilderness covered in her own blood and shit, eating off a burnt horse carcass. Her child is dead, her husband is dead, her brother is dead, she rules a slaver city surrounded by an army, has no income, no food supply, is in a loveless marriage, and has people murdering her people. If you have never been to the bottom, this is what it looks like. Only one place to go from here.

Exactly. Also, lets not forget she was orphaned, homeless, brutalized by her brother and sold to Drogo before the rest of that happened. Daenerys has had a crapload of tragedy happen to her. And some of it of her own making, as she's made plenty of mistakes trying to change a culture of slavery without considering the impact that would have on Mereen's economy and her ability to rule it. She may have had good intentions but she wasn't thinking things through. I think what she and her people have suffered is somewhat compensated by the destruction she has caused in her battles with the slavers.

I do think that every time Daenerys says "If I look back I am lost" it is counter-productive. Clearly there is something in her past that she needs to confront about herself: "To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

I don't think it's meant literally, but to progress in her objectives, Daenerys needs to look at her past, or maybe her family's past. As it is, she had shut away two of her dragons and the third ran away from home because he wouldn't be contained - although he came back to take her off on a spirit journey in the wilderness. In order to placate the Mereenese, she has denied an important part of herself. The end result is the dragons escape and reap havoc because they've been neglected. I think Daenerys needs to move on from Mereen and move forward with her plans for Westeros.

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I do think that every time Daenerys says "If I look back I am lost" it is counter-productive. Clearly there is something in her past that she needs to confront about herself: "To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

I don't think it's meant literally, but to progress in her objectives, Daenerys needs to look at her past, or maybe her family's past. As it is, she had shut away two of her dragons and the third ran away from home because he wouldn't be contained - although he came back to take her off on a spirit journey in the wilderness. In order to placate the Mereenese, she has denied an important part of herself. The end result is the dragons escape and reap havoc because they've been neglected. I think Daenerys needs to move on from Mereen and move forward with her plans for Westeros.

Agreed. There's something about the red door that really doesn't add up. It's a motif that has been overtly used throughout the books, much like Lyanna's "promise me" lines during Ned's POVs.

Since Drogon refuses to fly south to Meereen, maybe she'll fly north to Braavos instead?

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Let's analize the warning

She's a subscriptor to Glass Candles; that's very telling.

Pale mare: brought the disease

Kraken = Victarion

Dark flame = Moqorro

Lion = Tyrion

Griffin = JC

Sun's son = Quentyn Martell (sun = Doran)

Mummer's dragon = fAegon (mummer = Varys)

Perfumed seneschal = ship so named

Crackpot theory (needs validation): Quaithe is hiding the true Aegon in Asshai.

Who dares try the validation?

But the Martell sigil is a sun transfixed by a spear, so why should she only mention the sun, unless it didn't mean a Martell, but a Karstark

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I don't know what Quaithe's deal is, but she is clearly weird. She said to Dany "trust no one", hence why should Dany trust her?

I don't know whether Quaithe has visions that she just tells Dany, but I don't really understand why she speaks to Dany in riddles if she knows who she is talking about and what's up. Quaithe must have an agenda, otherwise she wouldn't come to Daenerys. She is most likely interested by the Dragons as dragons originated from Asshai. So she might really be willing to help Daenerys but, so far, all she is doing is putting doubts in Dany's head, she is not really showing her true colors yet.

I think Quaithe is an acquaintance of Melisandre as they both come from Asshai and have possibly met before.

As to her identity, I've seen a lot of people say "Ashara Dayne cannot be Lemore because Tyrion doesn't notice her eyes, she is Quaithe!". But actually, the only features that Dany can see on Quaithe's face are her eyes. And Dany says her eyes are "wet and shiny" but never mentions an eye color. Hence if we follow the same logic as we do with Lemore, Quaithe isn't Ashara Dayne either.

I guess Quaithe is either just Quaithe or someone who has an interest in the Targ family (aka one of the branch of sorceresses: Shiera Seastar or her mommy, or one of their descendants, who knows. IIRC, Shiera didn't take sides during the Blackfyre rebellion. And actually -edit- when Dany sees Quaithe in her dream in ADWD, she has a mask made of stars - if it's a clue at all)

I like the idea of her being Shiera Seastar.
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I just love this timeline..!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?pli=1&key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE&type=view&gid=8&f=true&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&page=1&rowsperpage=250&pli=1

If we believe it to be true, we see that Tyrion and Victarion were still in Westeros when Quaithe spoke to Dany (in Meereen). It seems clear that she sees (some of) the future.

And about trusting different people: Quentyn did try to steal hear dragon, didn't he? And do you really think Tyrion's to be trusted..?

And about Dany reaching the bottom:

She is still a queen, with the only living dragons in the world (one of which she's learning to ride), and with an army of thousands and many more thousands of loyal subjects.

I don't see that actually as being "at the bottom", how hard her situation ever is.

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I'm coming around to the idea that Quaithe does see the future, although like other prophets in the series she seems to interpret it imperfectly.

But I still believe Quaithe is on Dany's side and should be trusted, at least to a point. I think the following two lines are not as in conflict as other posters believe:

"If I look back, I am lost" / "To go forward you must go back."

I think the first line, which Dany thinks to herself, means that she can't second-guess her own decisions. She's the Dragon Queen, she has to make decisions and be as consistent as possible. She's not adverse to learning from the past, she just doesn't want to be wishy-washy or indecisive.

The second line seems to refer more to learning from history, or Dany going back in her own timeline to confront issues that were never resolved, e.g. the Dothraki.

I don't think the two lines can be taken as evidence of Quaithe's aims conflicting with Dany's interest.

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Quaithe cannot see the future. She just happens to possess a glass candle (see here). As for who she is and why she is helping Daenerys, I find this particular passage interesting:

“Quaithe?” Dany called. “Where are you, Quaithe?”

Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight.

What else is forged from starlight? Anyone want to take a guess?

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Very good question.

For instance, we know that Quentyn, the sun's son, was coming with an offer that was 100% legit and in good faith, and very, very beneficial to Daenerys. Yet Quaithe warned Dany not to trust him.

She may be poisoning Dany against potential allies.

Its very possible. I actually have no idea who Quaithe could be and why she would want to have Dany mess up though. Or even if Quaithe's identity is really something to be concerned around. Quaithe, unlike Melisandre, does not appear to be associated with R'hllor which i find interesting. Quaithe is a shadowbinder just like Mel, but she does not see in the flames like Mel. She uses Glass Candles which are obviously more accurate. Doesnt the maester explain to Sam how they work? They can show possible future events, you can communicate through them, and even enter people's dreams if powerful enough. They all started burning again when the dragons were hatched. Notice how Quaithe does not appear to Dany until after the dragons are hatched. Like, almost immediately after. :idea:

Why is that? This would imply Quaithe knew where Dany was. She is from Asshai but actually traveled to Qarth. Why did she travel to Qarth? She must have known Dany would go there after the dragons hatched. Its possible she even brought a glass candle with her from Asshai to Qarth. She finds Dany in Vaes Tolorro and takes her to Qarth but warns Dany about the city.

Dany has dreams about Quaithe at least three times. I believe Quaithe is visiting Dany's dreams with the use the glass candles. Mostly because her information is new to Dany each time.

"To go forward, you must go back..." i think this actually hints that Dany needs to retread some ground in order to conquer her goal. (like returning to the Dothraki Sea for example)

Remember who you are, Daenerys, ... The dragons know. Do you?

This is similar to something Daario says to Dany:

Dany: "Do you know who I am?"

Daario: "Yes. Do you?"

Hmmmm....

Im torn if Quaithe is really trying to help Dany. If she is trying to help Dany, its probably because Dany was the catalyst that helped bring the magic back to Planetos. Therefore Quaithe may feel obligated to aid Dany in order to keep the magic since Dany and the dragons are interwoven. If she is Dany's enemy, she may want to trap Dany in Asshai for the same reasons Pyat Pree and the Undying wanted to. The magic.

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Does magic itself have a faction? Maybe she's trying to protect the dragons from all the punks-on-a-pilgrimage who are out to steal / abuse / hurt the dragons. Safe dragons = a more secure future for magic-workers? So Danny gets the warning messages, but if somebody else took the dragons that person would suddenly have a relationship with Quaithe. Marwyn may also be in the magic-first faction, prioritizing the continued flow of magic over the wellbeing of any particular dragon lord? (Not to make the red priests sound desireable. They still suck too.)

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I personally believe Quaithe to be trying to aid Dany, although why I am not sure. My reasons aren't great, it's more of a gut feeling. But in Quarth, she warns Dany of the other two false men, and she does not decide Dany with fancy gifts, with magical displays. She relays her message and let's Dany choose. If she wanted Dany dead, she could have killed her in Ther Red Waste

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I agree that Quaithe seems to be helping Dany. She's both fairly accurate and warning against people who really do have 'hidden' agendas to use Dany or the dragons. Another reason I believe Quaithe is aiding Dany is that from fairy tales to Greek myths etc., heroes, especially young, perplexed ones, often receive supernatural help. And despite Jorah, Dany has long been what she calls herself--a young girl unused to the ways of the world. Quaithe being female also reminds me of fairy godmothers. Certainly all the people she predicts will come to Dany are male. Nonetheless, I hope Dany still takes everything Quaithe says with a grain of salt. One never knows.

The fact Quaithe speaks in riddles is standard. Only Biblical prophets are ever straight talkers and not always.

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I also wonder if Quaithe a a candle like Maester Merwyn and it is alit because Dragons have returned. Maester Merwyn said the candle can be used for different things and one is communication. I am wondering if Quaithe has visions to assist Dany and since Quaithe is presumable still in Qarth is using a candle to convey this information to Dany. So far, I like Quaithe and merely seems to be trying to help Dany. Granted the only thing suspcious so far I can gather from Quaithe is that she hides her face in a mask similar to Patchface.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I believe the perfumed seneschal is Marwyn, because he comes from the Seneschal's Court in the ship Cinnamon Wind. The part concerning "touch the light" refers to her journey to Asshai searching for Lightbringer.

Marwyn comes from the Citadel in Oldtown. Why do you call that "the Seneschal's court"?

Secondly, our author has said that we will not see Asshai except in flashbacks, and Dany is a POV character. That would appear to rule out any journey by Dany to Asshai

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