Quaithe's Prophecy and Why do you think she's helping Daenerys?

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Couldn't it be, that Aegon is expected to be the "Mummer's dragon" and "not to be trusted" that he's not a fake dragon, but a fake Targ? So, a Blackfyre?

Noticed that it is your first post so welcome to the forums! :cheers:

Many already believe Aegon to be a fake Targ/Blackfyre. There are a number of theories out there but I think http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79775-a-compendium-of-theories/ is what you should look at. There are several related theories to be found here, particularly those involving Varys and Illyrio

[Lord-ofLight]

What if Quaithe is simply a delusion? The Targ. madness already sweeping over Dany?

[yolkboy]

What if Quaithe is simply a delusion? The Targ. madness already sweeping over Dany?

Jorah and her Bloodriders have seen Quaithe.

[Lord-ofLight]

Jorah and her Bloodriders have seen Quaithe.

I totally realized that right after I posted it...still maybe the last couple meetings have been delusions/dreams as opposed to the real thing in Qarth? It seems unlikely to me but I'm just throwing it out there.

[Lost Melnibonean]

It's not a prophecy, it's counsel. Consider the fuller context...

"Are you here?"

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

"Reznak? Why should I fear him?" Dany rose from the pool. Water trickled down her legs, and gooseflesh covered her arms in the cool night air.

"If you have some warning for me, speak plainly. What do you want of me, Quaithe?"

Moonlight shone in the woman's eyes. "To show you the way."

"I remember the way. I go north to go south, east to go west, back to go forward. And to touch the light I have to pass beneath the shadow." She squeezed the water from her silvery hair. "I am half-sick of riddling. In Qarth I was a beggar, but here I am a queen. I command you - "

"Daenerys. Remember the Undying. Remember who you are."

--The glass candles are burning. That's Quaithe explaining how she's able to appear to Dany, no?

--The pale mare is obviously the the horse that carried the flux currently ravaging Slavers Bay. (But why do Tyrion and the Yunkai call the flux the pale mare?)

--Kraken and dark flame are obviously Victarion and Moqorro. Lion and griffin are obviously Tyrion and Jon Connington. The sun's son is obviously Quentyn and the mummer's dragon is a little less obviously Aegon.

All of the characters were seeking to use Dany for their own ends. Quaithe doesn't tell Dany to fear them. She tells her not to to trust them.

Then she tells her to remember the Undying. The Undying tried to trap her and drain her. And what was the vision to which Dany finally succumbed in the HOTU? It was the masses crying mother. And why did she stay in Slaver's Bay? For the masses crying mother. That's why the perfumed seneschal is Reznak. Reznak probably was in league with Hizdar and the Sons of the Harpy to put pressure on Dany so as to bend her to their will--to use her. Reznak didn't want Dany to leave Meereen. He wanted her to stay and wed Hizdar.

Reznak mo Reznak gave a piteous moan. "Then it is true. Your Worship means to abandon us." He wrung his hands. "The Yunkai'i will restore the Great Masters the instant you are gone, and we who have so faithfully served your cause will be put to the sword, our sweet wives and maiden daughters raped and enslaved."

...

"Those left behind in Meereen would envy them their easy deaths," moaned Reznak. "They will make slaves of us, or throw us in the pits. All will be as it was, or worse."

--Reznak wants Dany to stay but Quaithe urges Dany to remember who she is. Dany is the mother of dragons. Fire and blood. She's not acting the part in Meereen.

But what is Quaithe's motivation? Is she Sheira Seastar?

[danm_999]

I totally realized that right after I posted it...still maybe the last couple meetings have been delusions/dreams as opposed to the real thing in Qarth? It seems unlikely to me but I'm just throwing it out there.

If it's a delusion it's an interesting one, since it's giving her information that she has absolutely no way of knowing (for example, that Tyrion and Victarion are heading her way).

More likely Quaithe is using a glass candle.

[Dornishwoman's Husband]

CRACKPOT!!!!!

I read some fanfiction book on the internet, and the guy who wrote it, made up Quaithe is the Nissa Nissa, who is still alive after many thousand years.

[JTS]

what if the mummer's Dragon doesn't imply Aegon but Jon Snow, I mean he doesn't know he is not a Targaryen so he's oblivious to the truth it's acting in a deeper sense of the word. Just another crackpot idea

[Ser Creighton]

It's not a prophecy, it's counsel. Consider the fuller context...

"Are you here?"

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

"Reznak? Why should I fear him?" Dany rose from the pool. Water trickled down her legs, and gooseflesh covered her arms in the cool night air.

"If you have some warning for me, speak plainly. What do you want of me, Quaithe?"

Moonlight shone in the woman's eyes. "To show you the way."

"I remember the way. I go north to go south, east to go west, back to go forward. And to touch the light I have to pass beneath the shadow." She squeezed the water from her silvery hair. "I am half-sick of riddling. In Qarth I was a beggar, but here I am a queen. I command you - "

"Daenerys. Remember the Undying. Remember who you are."

--The glass candles are burning. That's Quaithe explaining how she's able to appear to Dany, no?

--The pale mare is obviously the the horse that carried the flux currently ravaging Slavers Bay. (But why do Tyrion and the Yunkai call the flux the pale mare?)

--Kraken and dark flame are obviously Victarion and Moqorro. Lion and griffin are obviously Tyrion and Jon Connington. The sun's son is obviously Quentyn and the mummer's dragon is a little less obviously Aegon.

All of the characters were seeking to use Dany for their own ends. Quaithe doesn't tell Dany to fear them. She tells her not to to trust them.

Then she tells her to remember the Undying. The Undying tried to trap her and drain her. And what was the vision to which Dany finally succumbed in the HOTU? It was the masses crying mother. And why did she stay in Slaver's Bay? For the masses crying mother. That's why the perfumed seneschal is Reznak. Reznak probably was in league with Hizdar and the Sons of the Harpy to put pressure on Dany so as to bend her to their will--to use her. Reznak didn't want Dany to leave Meereen. He wanted her to stay and wed Hizdar. Reznak mo Reznak gave a piteous moan. "Then it is true. Your Worship means to abandon us." He wrung his hands. "The Yunkai'i will restore the Great Masters the instant you are gone, and we who have so faithfully served your cause will be put to the sword, our sweet wives and maiden daughters raped and enslaved."

...

"Those left behind in Meereen would envy them their easy deaths," moaned Reznak. "They will make slaves of us, or throw us in the pits. All will be as it was, or worse."

--Reznak wants Dany to stay but Quaithe urges Dany to remember who she is. Dany is the mother of dragons. Fire and blood. She's not acting the part in Meereen.

But what is Quaithe's motivation? Is she Sheira Seastar?

No it's a prophecy the whole seeing into the future part makes it a prophecy.

[Lost Melnibonean]

No it's a prophecy the whole seeing into the future part makes it a prophecy.

I'm pretty sure all of those events were beginning or being set in motion at the time. There is definitely some foresight going on, but my main point is that she's counseling Daenerys not to fall into the trap she fell into in the House of the Undying and again in Meereen.

[oursisthefury69]

@JTS "What if the mummer's dragon doesn't relate to Aegon but to Jon Snow?" There's more to the term "mummers dragon" than just some random previously unknown Targ.

1. We know Aegon is being assisted/controlled by Varys and his schemes, and we know Varys to be a former mummer, to make sense of it just by the term.

2. We also have Danaerys talk about how the mummers dragon is something for the hero to fight, and it seems impending, nevermind more likely that Dany and Aegon will come to blows, opposed to Jon who doesn't share the same goals as them

[The Mother of The Others]

pale horse. Death. it's probably a phrase and nickname for disease because horses get pale when they're sick and dying and have for a long while so the disease's nickname has likely been around a while too, and so the term pale mare is known to both Tyrion and Quaithe the way we know to avoid "fish tacos" because it's a common name for an unfortunate item on the menu at restaurants.

Quaithe looks like a weather forecaster--she's right about the near future most of the time without really being a Seer. More of a watcher than a Seer. She has intimate knowledge of what's happening as of right now, and that makes her counsel seem closer to prophetic than anyone else's, but she's still looking at the present. she just knows what's trending and what course those ships are on, so it's like having advanced warning but of something that actually was in motion at the time, whereas pure prophecy would be stated before the events were underway.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

<snip

"Daenerys. Remember the Undying. Remember who you are."

<snip

--Reznak wants Dany to stay but Quaithe urges Dany to remember who she is. Dany is the mother of dragons. Fire and blood. She's not acting the part in Meereen.

But what is Quaithe's motivation? Is she Sheira Seastar?

I think the fact that she said her name rather than some form of royal address is telling. It implies a personal care or connection that is lacking in many others who have offered advice to Dany.

The Sheira Seastar idea is intriguing. I'd say she's a better bet than most for Quaithe's hidden identity.

[oursisthefury69]

Quaithe is to Dany as Bloordraven is to Bran

[Stargaryen81]

To be fair, theres a lot of people omitted from Quaithe's "No Sell" list. Theres no mention of a rose, no mention of a wolf, no mention of a shooting star, high towers, and weirdly, no mockingbird. (of course i dont think Littlefinger will have anything to do with Dany because he considers her too far away and pointless.)

But the shooting star will probably align with Dorne anyway. Hightowers, the Citadel which they control, the Rose is gonna wilt being trampled by Lions, and the wolves are scattered to the winds.

Remember fighting is still going on. You can almost assume that current bad people or families that didn't make the list will be taken care of prior to Dany landing on Westeros. Tyrells could be done before Dany gets there, therefore no warning.

[The Human Abstract]

No it's a prophecy the whole seeing into the future part makes it a prophecy.

Does she actually see into the future? Seems to me that she is mainly describing the present.

She "sees" all those moving towards her and then infers their arrival. Which is more of a "vision" than a prophecy. And why she winds up being wrong about the arrival of at least one.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

GRRM said we will only see Asshai in people's memories, so Dany wont be going there. Also, trying to shoehorn events so they fit the prophesies of MMD and Quaithe is a really bad idea.

Yes Exactly!! Everyone should listen to this sage advice.

Does she actually see into the future? Seems to me that she is mainly describing the present.

She "sees" all those moving towards her and then infers their arrival. Which is more of a "vision" than a prophecy. And why she winds up being wrong about the arrival of at least one.

'Beware of the perfumed senescahl' is seeing into the future, the Shavepate (Skahaz mo Kandaq ) is someone she doesnt meet until Mereen and he is the 'littlefinger' of Merreen, he is the one who has caused all the problems and continued the fighting and war.. I think of all the prophecy Dany was given by Quaithe, that was the most important. And the part which (sadly) was not taken seriously enough by anyone.

[Lost Melnibonean]

pale horse. Death. it's probably a phrase and nickname for disease because horses get pale when they're sick and dying and have for a long while so the disease's nickname has likely been around a while too, and so the term pale mare is known to both Tyrion and Quaithe the way we know to avoid "fish tacos" because it's a common name for an unfortunate item on the menu at restaurants.

Hmmm... fish tacos...

[Lost Melnibonean]

Quaithe is to Dany as Bloordraven is to Bran.

That would suggest she's Sheira Seastar, no?

[Lost Melnibonean]

'Beware of the perfumed senescahl' is seeing into the future, the Shavepate (Skahaz mo Kandaq ) is someone she doesnt meet until Mereen and he is the 'littlefinger' of Merreen, he is the one who has caused all the problems and continued the fighting and war.. I think of all the prophecy Dany was given by Quaithe, that was the most important. And the part which (sadly) was not taken seriously enough by anyone.

Um, the vision of Quaithe occurs in Meereen...