Jump to content

Who gave Mandon Moore the order to kill Tyrion?


Peter Woolshirt

Recommended Posts

My theory is that it was Joffrey. GRRM has given us enough clues to figure it out, but he's hidden them very well. He reveals Joffrey's motive in this passage from Tyrion's trial:

Ser Osmund Kettleblack, a vision of chivalry in immaculate scale armor and white wool cloak, swore that King Joffrey had long known that his uncle Tyrion meant to murder him. "It was the day they gave me the white cloak, my lords," he told the judges. "That brave boy said to me 'Good Ser Osmund, guard me well, for my uncle loves me not. He means to be king in my place.' "

That was more than Tyrion could stomach. "Liar!" He took two steps forward before the gold cloaks dragged him back.

But is Ser Osmund lying, or is GRRM misdirecting us here? Tyrion certainly can't know firsthand, as even Joffrey wouldn't be stupid enough to say this in Tyrion's presence. Who else is lying at this trial? Everybody seems to be telling the truth except Taena Merryweather and Shae, and both of them have ulterior motives to lie: Taena wants to ingratiate herself with Cersei, and Shae not only has a deal with Cersei, but also wants to dissociate herself from the traitor Tyrion.

Could Osmund Kettleblack be lying here? Probably not. The witnesses have to swear an oath to speak the truth:

"Lord Hand," [ser Addam] began, after the High Septon swore him to speak only truth.

and here is what Osmund's brother Osney said about lying to the High Septon in A Feast for Crows:

"I never lied to no High Septon before. I think you go to some hell for that. One o' the bad ones."

Cersei managed to persuade Osney to lie by sleeping with him, but is Osmund's testimony at Tyrion's trial worth that kind of persuasion? He just reports what Joffrey thought, and doesn't really tell us anything about Tyrion's actions.

So Joffrey had the motive (he thought Tyrion was planning to kill him) and he had the means and the opportunity (Mandon Moore would have obeyed him). It's not clear who else Mandon Moore would have obeyed apart from Cersei, and not only is she smart enough to realize that Tyrion is helping defend King's Landing, but she also thought she had Tyrion under control because she had his whore captive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's actually very clear it wasn't Cersei who sent Ser Mandon after Tyrion: she never even thinks about it at all in all her Tyrion-paranoia. As for who is really behind it, several candidates have been proposed. I think it's LF, but Joff is certainly a possibility. Others have proposed Varys, but I don't see his motive; Tyrion is a very valuable tool for him, so why should he throw him away like that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've always been a firm believer that Ser Mandon acted on his own. The interaction between Tyrion, Bronn, and Ser Mandon lead me to that conclusion. I think Ser Mandon was possibly friends with Ser Vardis Egen. Or, at least had great respect for the man.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't seen the show yet. But it doesn't look like Joff's. He'd rather tell Ilyn to behead him.

I thought it was Tywin who was behind.

No it wasn't Tywin. Tywin does not murder family.

It could have been a number of people, but I expect Joffrey, Cersei and LF are the main suspects. Cersei's POV cannot be trusted. She likes to forget a lot of things and twist them in her memory: treating Sansa well, not murdering her friend, sex with Taena etc. All in all it was probably Cersei, then Littlefinger and Joffrey least likely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's actually very clear it wasn't Cersei who sent Ser Mandon after Tyrion: she never even thinks about it at all in all her Tyrion-paranoia. As for who is really behind it, several candidates have been proposed. I think it's LF, but Joff is certainly a possibility. Others have proposed Varys, but I don't see his motive; Tyrion is a very valuable tool for him, so why should he throw him away like that?

Tyrion has publicly humiliated Joff and LF sees Tyrion as a threat. LF has also manipulated Joff, so a combination of the two is a real possibility.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No it wasn't Tywin. Tywin does not murder family.

It could have been a number of people, but I expect Joffrey, Cersei and LF are the main suspects. Cersei's POV cannot be trusted. She likes to forget a lot of things and twist them in her memory: treating Sansa well, not murdering her friend, sex with Taena etc. All in all it was probably Cersei, then Littlefinger and Joffrey least likely.

What makes you think that Tywin doesn't murder family? I suspect he does, and I also suspect Tyrion is not his family. I think he had Joff killed.

I'm exploring this story and I'd like to know if you have some evidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was Littlefinger.

It makes perfect sense. Since Lysa was in LF's employ, it makes sense how the box/message to Cat got to Witnerfell since someone in the king's party left it.

And also, Ser Mandon Moore is originally from the Vale and was recommended by Jon Arryn - as was Littlefinger.

The pieces add up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What makes you think that Tywin doesn't murder family? I suspect he does, and I also suspect Tyrion is not his family. I think he had Joff killed.

I'm exploring this story and I'd like to know if you have some evidence.

Everything he says, everything he taught his kids, not killing Tyrion as a baby, Kevan mentioning how important family was to him, going beyond the call of duty to try and find Tyrek, looking after Joy Hill, not allowing Tyrion to go on Gerion's suicide mission, doing everything possible to try and find Gerion, providing Lancel with a Lordship etc. Could go on and on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have thought it was Joffrey, he's the most vindictive. Also Cersei would not have expected Tyrion to do any actual fighting so would not think there would be a chance.

What makes you think that Tywin doesn't murder family? I suspect he does, and I also suspect Tyrion is not his family. I think he had Joff killed.

I'm exploring this story and I'd like to know if you have some evidence.

If Tywin thought for a second that Tyrion not his son, I assume this is a secret Targ theory, then he would have died in infancy. Also he was not in KL to give the order, that he killed Joff is even less likely Tywin would have assumed he could bring him to heel before he did to much more damage.

I've always been a firm believer that Ser Mandon acted on his own. The interaction between Tyrion, Bronn, and Ser Mandon lead me to that conclusion. I think Ser Mandon was possibly friends with Ser Vardis Egen. Or, at least had great respect for the man.

I like this theory, never put those things together before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What makes you think that Tywin doesn't murder family? I suspect he does, and I also suspect Tyrion is not his family. I think he had Joff killed.

I'm exploring this story and I'd like to know if you have some evidence.

Tywin says he wants Tyrion to go to the Night's Watch, even though he's accused of killing Tywin's king and grandson. Seems clear to me that death is not on Tywin's mind wrt Tyrion. Plus, Tywin isn't even at KL to secure Moore's cooperation in such a plan, so...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well on one of Tyrion's POVs he reflects on it and finds way too stupid to be on his sister's so yeah it was Joffrey. Sending a Kingsguard (in his most notable armor) to murder the acting Hand in middle of a battlefield where thousands of soldiers were watching, yeah not suspicious at all.

Tywin says he wants Tyrion to go to the Night's Watch, even though he's accused of killing Tywin's king and grandson. Seems clear to me that death is not on Tywin's mind wrt Tyrion.

No that's Kevan (totally worshipper of his brother) who says that Tywin would spare Tyrion's life but the latter highly doubts that. It's not Tywin's mmo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...