Would Rhaegar have been a better father to Jon than Ned?

[MRHD]

Im aware of the religion. I just dont see how relevant it is to mention it.

Perhaps Joseph Smith was a Secret Targaryen.

[intheswamp]

Rhaegar had very high expectations for his children.

I could see Jon growing up and joining the Kingsguard to protect his older siblings. It would be fitting since in Jon's flashback of fighting Robb, the first historical fighter he called himself was Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. They'd both have older brothers named Aegon. Jon's Targ name might even had been Aemon, since Rhaegar respected Maester Aemon. As it is, Jon might even end up with Darksister, the sword Aemon the Dragonknight used, since it was last seen with Bloodraven.

[Groat]

EDIT: Now that I reread your post I get the feeling that you are talking about polygamy instead of having an affair without marriage. Is this what you are referring to?

Well considering I used the exact word polygamy in my post I think it's a safe bet to assume that is what I'm referring to :)

Just making a point that societal and religious pressures can have interesting affects on even outspoken women. We have no idea how Elia would have reacted to Lyanna and baby Jon Snow, but considering there are real life examples of women perfectly ok with polygamy, she may have been completely ok with it herself.

[TalalOfDorne]

Well considering I used the exact word polygamy in my post I think it's a safe bet to assume that is what I'm referring to :)

Just making a point that societal and religious pressures can have interesting affects on even outspoken women. We have no idea how Elia would have reacted to Lyanna and baby Jon Snow, but considering there are real life examples of women perfectly ok with polygamy, she may have been completely ok with it herself.

Oh I dont think most women would have a problem with polygamy if its accepted in her society. The problem is that the cases of Ned and Cat and Elia and Rhaegar wernt polygamy (Though I admit there is a lot of debate on the latter).

[The Wolves]

I think Rhaegar would have been a good father to Jon but we shall never know :-( what type of father he would have been to his children :-(

[Whitering]

Well, Elia probably still wouldn't have treated him super well, but we don't know if she bought into the prophecy and was, well, okay with having a sister wife a la Wheel of Time.

[2fingers]

Wait a minute, Rhaegar fans, what made you a fan of his? I don't remember reading anything about him except that he had silver hair and was a prince.

[Groat]

Wait a minute, Rhaegar fans, what made you a fan of his? I don't remember reading anything about him except that he had silver hair and was a prince.

Well considering every POV thought we hear about him, including Ned Stark's, paints him in a positive light, if not ouright glorifying him, so it's easy to understand where the love comes from.

[Pikachu101]

The Dornish don't really seem to agree with you... Dorne fought for Rhaegar and is still a Targaryen loyalist. Doesn't seem like they have taken some great grudge over the Lyanna business.

I think that has a lot to do with the fact that Dany and Viserys are a way of getting revenge on the Lannisters.

Holding a grudge against the Targaryens is minuscule compared to the fact that Tywin had Elia raped and her and her children murdered.

If Elia had lived I highly doubt she would accept Jon with open arms, she's a proud noblewoman and Jon's an insult to her.

Thinking she has a duty to accept him is ridiculous <_<

Also, as somebody mentioned, Ellaria Sand had no problem with the countless bastards of Oberyn either.

Apart from theirs Oberyn has four and none of them were born when they were together so it makes all the difference

As for the rest... Ned KNEW his daughters would be damned if he didn't confess. Rhaegar had no idea Brandon would make such a scene, that Aerys would kill them both, that Jon Arryn would start a rebellion, that bloody Lannisters would turn their back on his father, that he would lose and die on the Trident. And that sort of makes a huge difference.

Yes because kidnapping a nobleman's daughter won't cause any problems :rolleyes:

And after that escapade he didn't even use his initiative and try to sue for peace. Yes, the whole thing was out of Rhaegar's hands <_<

Back to topic: Rhaegar's a crap father end of. Comparing him to Ned is ridiculous and laughable

[Mulled Wino]

I agree. I love Elia and think she may have been a good person, but no woman should be obliged to take in the kids her husband throws at her from his whoring.

its always a better idea to take it out on the innocent child

[Pikachu101]

its always a better idea to take it out on the innocent child

Are you implying that Cat took it out on Jon?

[Brynden Bloodraven Rivers]

Rhaenys is older yes, but that doesnt mean they couldnt be close. Aegon and Jon are very close in age. They could be like Robb and Jon. But seeing how Jon would be the spare, he would be able to get away with a lot more junk than Aegon would. Flying below the radar. I could see Aegon looking up to Jon because of having more wiggle room.

Yes, it's just that it looked like you were talking about Jon, Aegon and Rhaenys as if Jon was the older. I sometimes forget that Rhaenys would be about 20 now, if she was alive, so I thought that happened the same to you.

[The Angels' Prophet]

A better father than Ned? No. But I do think his experience at the Red Keep would have been better than at Winterfell, mainly because of Cat. I am one of those people in the camp that think that Elia was aware of Rhaegar and Lyanna was at least understanding about it, so I think she would have been at least decent towards him.

[Kuther2000]

This isn't a question that could truly ever be answered.

I have no doubt that Rhaegar would have loved Jon probably even more than the other children, but just because one loves someone doesn't mean that they would be best for them. He would have loved him but, he would be doing other things moreso than spending time with his family.

I know that Rhaenys hid under his bed so that could potentially show a good relationship, but what little girl no matter what has been done wouldn't go to her father to protect her. Because that is what they are supposed to be there for. Shireen would probably do the same thing.

He was able to leave them for a year to run off with his future wife/lover or whatever. Can we honestly see Ned doing something like that?

Even now I know that we don't get many thoughts on him but, we never really hear about how happy he was to have Aegon or if he played with Rhaenys. Everything in reference to his children especially by audiences that he thought they were heads of the dragon who would defeat The Others.

[Nami]

The guy who ran away with a Lord Paramount's daughter, thereby putting his entire family potentially in danger and allowing war to engulf the Realm while he was having fun at the Tower of Joy?

Somehow, I don't see him being a good, responsible father.

I gotta agree with this, even though I like Rhaegar

Obviously his children weren't his first priority in life

I don't think he would mistreat Jon or anything (Rhaenys seemed really attached to her papa) but he would be distant, like I think he was with everyone. Didn't Selmy say no one was really that close to him besides Arthur Dayne? The guy was like in his own world.

Plus I don't think they would get along that well and be close because they must be very alike personality wise. Two reserved, too caught up in thoughts and melancholic people

About Elia, she would probably be ok with him, not affectionate, but not mean too.

I think Jon would be very close to Lyanna, like he is to Arya. Those personalities get along

[Nami]

We know very little about Rhaegar, and how he treated his children. I always assumed by one little detail that he was at the very least a decent father to his kids: the fact that Rhaenys was dragged from under his bed. She sought shelter in her father's room, so he must have treated her well enough to have her love him enough to seek the safety of his room, and not her mother's bed or a septa's or a nursemaid's or hiding under her own bed.

Rhaegar also loved Lyanna according to Barristan. If she died delivering Jon, I think Rhaegar would probably cherish Jon more than his other two children, but he would be a completely different father than Ned. From what little we get of Rhaegar, he's little like Ned in many ways. Ned taught his children honor and respect, to be responsible for your own actions (the man who delivers the sentence should swing the sword), things like that.

I also think Elia would be more accepting than Cat, because unlike Cat she knows the whole story. The Dornish also seem quite accepting whereas many people are not. So I think Jon could have been treated well, raised well, but he would not be the Jon Snow we know now.

Jon would be a real prick, honestly now

He was full of himself at one point just being a bastard of Ned Stark and growing up in Winterfell. Can you imagine how he would turn out being a half Targaryen, prince and legitimate heir to the king?

[Kuther2000]

A better father than Ned? No. But I do think his experience at the Red Keep would have been better than at Winterfell, mainly because of Cat. I am one of those people in the camp that think that Elia was aware of Rhaegar and Lyanna was at least understanding about it, so I think she would have been at least decent towards him.

I am one of those people who thinks that Jon probably had a happier childhood than most of the other kids. It wasn't like Cat was being abusive. Elia could have been aware of Rhaegar's intentions but that doesn't mean she has to be understanding. Rhaegar is the crown prince and her husband. He could do as he liked without her being okay with it. Truthfully, I would be shocked if we actually ever got confirmation on what she knew because she is long dead and the only people who could tell us anything are dead or Doran if he knows anything.

What exactly is decent? Is she obligated to love Jon to be decent? No. Is she obligated to be his mother? No. Does she have to let him play with her children for her to be decent?

I think she is decent if she isn't abusive to the son of her husband whose mother, everyone and their mother knew he loved. He went out of his way to essentially say that Elia wasn't good enough by running off with Lyanna. I know that he didn't love her and it was a political marriage. But it still has to sting. He basically(presumably) brought an outdated practice back just for this.

I actually like Elia for what little we know of her so no I don't think she would have been mean, but then again Cat wasn't mean to me either she was indifferent.

[Broken Fox]

Wait a minute, Rhaegar fans, what made you a fan of his? I don't remember reading anything about him except that he had silver hair and was a prince.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhaegar_Targaryen

[Porcelain Steel]

This is a tough one, mainly because if he had been raised by Rhaegar, Jon would not be Jon as he is today...and I think that some of Jon's best qualities come from modeling himself after Ned. I've always had the sense that of all the children Ned raised, Jon was the one who most actively wanted to be like him. Even the not so great parts of his childhood probably helped shaped him in positive ways..for example, being brought up as one who is often on the outside looking in caused him to be perceptive and open minded about people and cultures that are different from him. So I can't really know how I would feel about a Jon who was raised by Rhaegar and Lyanna....

The simple answer to who just seems like the better father in general? It's hard to beat Ned.

[jons nissa]

how can we really answer this when we know so little about what rhaegar was like? what we can say is if lyanna was indeed married to jon, he would have been raised as a prince. given what we know about how much jon hated his bastard status, it would have been much better, in that regard. also, it is doubtful that he would have gone to the wall.

his life would have been completely different.