Would Rhaegar have been a better father to Jon than Ned?

[The Night's Prince]

A child is an insult to someone. I've heard it all now. This forum :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[TheDrifter]

Can't really judge him since we have little info on how he was with his other kids.

[Minsc]

Cat still sucks though imo

Cat is awesomeness personified.

[Northern Pride]

Given the situation Jon Snow got put in a catch 22. Each scenario was a no win unless the circumstances could be changed.

[Nami]

Cat was quite the bitch to Jon

The kid didn't have a mother, for fuck's sake have some sympathy

If she had to be mad at someone, she should have been mad at Ned who supposedly cheated on her and made a bastard, not a innocent child who didn't ask to be born

[Trinton07]

I don't think Cat is the worst character ever. I mean really. She is worst than rapist and murderers. That's insane. It wasn't like she beat and abused the kid then I would totally have a problem with that. She just didn't deal with him and she didn't have too. He isn't her kid. She was doesn't deal with Theon either or the other motherless children of Winterfell. Jon has a parent his name is Ned.

You're right; I was being overdramatic and by no means do i actually think Cat is the worst character in the books. But i do think she treats Jon more poorly then she should; the way she spoke to him after bran fell in the first book was just cutting. She was grief stricken I know, but still. Idk, i feel like she blames Jon for the affair, which is just irrational. But yeah, really she isn't that bad, i just don't like her treatment of jon.

[Trinton07]

If she had to be mad at someone, she should have been mad at Ned who supposedly cheated on her and made a bastard, not a innocent child who didn't ask to be born

Yeah, that's my main issue with her; she should be mad at Ned, not Jon.

But back to the topic of the thread; I think his relationship with elia would've been better than his relationship with Cat, but I think Ned was probablly better than Rhaegar.

[Minsc]

But yeah, really she isn't that bad, i just don't like her treatment of jon.

Besides that event she was just normally distant and withdrawn.

Moreover, on topic I would believe that Elia would dislike Jon more in how he is even more of a threat then bastard Jon was to Cat's children.

[Kuther2000]

Besides that event she was just normally distant and withdrawn.

Moreover, on topic I would believe that Elia would dislike Jon more in how he is even more of a threat then bastard Jon was to Cat's children.

Yea. I don't necessarily think Elia would dislike Jon. She doesn't seem like that kind of a person from what we know. I just think she wouldn't really have anything to do with him. The truth is she doesn't have to have anything to do with him. From the way some people talk about it at the end, Rhaegar and Elia's marriage was just in name so she wouldn't have any obligation to Rhaegar's other children. If I were Rhaegar, I would be worried that little Jonny boy would have an accident. We know how the Dornish are.

I mean can we really see Lyanna playing with Aegon and Rhaenys or if she had married Robert playing with Mya Stone. Would she have been a mother to those children.

[The Wolves]

Jon's problems come from Ned being a shitty father/husband that refuses to explain his actions or act in a socially proscribed manner.

Ned was never a shifty husband or father. Taking care of your child is not going against any social norm in Westerosi be they bastard or true born.

Ned is not the only person nor will he be the last in Westerosi to take their bastard in and take care of them. Not all bastards was put away from their parent, just because he refused to put his child away from hisself does not mean that Ned was not acting in a socially prescribed manner.

And Catelyn didn't need to know anything concerning Jon

[Minsc]

And Catelyn didn't need to know anything concerning Jon

I disagree if he is going to force Jon onto her.

[The Wolves]

I disagree if he is going to force Jon onto her.

Jon was NEVER forced upon Catelyn in any way. Winterfell is a huge castle with maids and various people Catelyn never had to deal with Jon directly she made sure of that.

[Minsc]

Jon was NEVER forced upon Catelyn in any way. Winterfell is a huge castle with maids and various people Catelyn never had to deal with Jon directly she made sure of that.

He placed Jon into her home without explanation, I find that wrong. Agree to disagree.

[The Wolves]

He placed Jon into her home without explanation, I find that wrong. Agree to disagree.

He placed Jon into HIS home, you know Ned's family castle Winterfell that belongs to Ned before it does Catelyn.

It wasn't wrong to bring his child to his home it sucked for Catelyn but Jon doesn't concern her so its none of her who his mother was or if Ned took Jon from his sister to protect him. Catelyn doesn't deserve that information.

[Minsc]

It wasn't wrong to bring his child to his home it sucked for Catelyn but Jon doesn't concern her so its none of her who his mother was or if Ned took Jon from his sister to protect him. Catelyn doesn't deserve that information.

Yes, she does deserve her husband to be honest and open with her.

[The Wolves]

Yes, she does deserve her husband to be honest and open with her.

Not concerning Jon. She was distant with him and had open animosity towards Jon, why does she deserve to know anything about him? She did deserve to have a honest marriage but with her attitude concerning Jon has me saying Catelyn deserved to know nothing concerning him and she can't be trusted with that information IMO

[David Selig]

Give me a break. Bringing a kid home without asking your wife and not explaining anything is a terrible way to treat your wife. I don't give a damn how "innocent" the kid is (talk about a pointless qualifier, BTW).

Elia just accepting Rhaegar cheating on her and having another son who can well challenge for the Throne against her son and win (Lyanna had a stronger House behind her, for one thing) is incredibly unlikely. She is Oberyn and Doran's sister, it's very unlikely she's a doormat.

[PrinceHenryris]

Yeah because Elia would put up with her husband humiliating her :rolleyes:

People need to stop romanticising the dead, like they're perfect and can do no wrong. Elia would have ignored Jon, just like Catelyn and that's good enough for any woman in that situation.

Back to topic:

Rhaegar wouldn't want anything to do with Jon because he isn't Visenya ;)

Rhaegar put a song at a higher importance than his family's protection

Ned confessed to treason just so his daughters would live

Do we really need to compare them? The answers obvious

Elia was Dornish, and more liberal. I also think she'd be cooler after she was told she couldn't have any more children.

[Minsc]

Elia was Dornish, and more liberal. I also think she'd be cooler after she was told she couldn't have any more children.

Yes, because the Dornish are known for their coolheadedness. Jon would be a greater threat to Aegon and Rhaenys then he ever was to Robb and company thus she would likely hold the same views against him as Catelyn.

[Kuther2000]

Elia was Dornish, and more liberal. I also think she'd be cooler after she was told she couldn't have any more children.

Yes, because the Dornish are known for their coolheadedness. Jon would be a greater threat to Aegon and Rhaenys then he ever was to Robb and company thus she would likely hold the same views against him as Catelyn.

I agree. I really do hate when people use Elia's Dornishness to say that she was okay. We don't know that. Just because Oberyn does things doesn't mean his siblings will or can do them too. He is the second son of a powerful House with no responsibilities. Doran has always had to put the duty to his people first. Elia is a woman and a princess who would have been much more sheltered. She was also sick. and she had to go from a more lenient culture to a more conservative one so she wouldn't have as much freedom there. She would understand what is done and what is not done. And him taking another wife or lover and having a child would be seen as a slight in this more conservative culture. Prophecy or no. It is the perception that matters to these people.

Until GRRM says she was okay, we don't know.

Jon is a potential threat to her children with the North, Vale (Jon Arryn), and Riverlands(Brandon or Ned's in-laws ) presumably backing him. The Tyrells would go for Jon just to slight the Dornish. The only houses who would be up in the air are the Baratheons and Greyjoys. They wouldn't be of help.

With Rhaegar, I think that he would have put alot of weight and responsibility onto the shoulders of the children. The man has basically been telling people that his children would save the world. I mean how can you live up to something like that. I don't think he would take into account that his children are their own people and not his instruments to use to save the world.