Why would Varys and Ilyrio help Dany and Aegon? Blackfyre or Targaryen supporters?

[Maxpey]

Nope. Varys and Illyrio are playing a very long game, for at least 15 years by now, and likely 20 already. Cersei's long-term strategy skills are nonexistent. That's a huge difference there.

Varys and Illyrio are not loyal to the Targaryens. Varys undermined Rhaegar, and Illyrio never lifted a finger for Dany and Viserys until he could make a profit out of it. They are loyal to fAegon only. Well, and perhaps Varys was somewhat loyal to Aerys earlier on, but feeding someone's paranoia is not really a good kind of loyalty to begin with.

I think Richard Nixon would agree with you on this point.

[AstronautMargaery]

No I doubt Doran and Varys are working together, as for Doran's mole, I suspect that Taena Merryweather is the leak. Or at least I read a theory about that some time ago, but I'm not a specialist on this theory so I can't remember the arguements made and proofs given.

Oh, someone tell more about this Taena Merryweather theory, please.

I liked the theory that Varys might have a Targ/Blackfyre ascent. He is bald, isn't? Maybe to conceal his silver hair?

TARGARYENS, TARGARYENS EVERYWHERE :dunno:

[Scipio Africanus]

Oh, someone tell more about this Taena Merryweather theory, please.

I liked the theory that Varys might have a Targ/Blackfyre ascent. He is bald, isn't? Maybe to conceal his silver hair?

TARGARYENS, TARGARYENS EVERYWHERE :dunno:

Thank the Old Gods the search function is working again.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/56394-taena-of-myrlady-merryweather-a-double-agent/page__st__20

Whole thread has some good thoughts.

[Lord_Tyrell]

OK...but Aegon thinks he is Rhaegar's son correct? And So does Jon Con.... Jon Con is going to be a very loose cannon once he finds out he has been wasting the last 10 years of his life protecting an imposter who has been pretending (or unknowingly) to be His dead best friends (and his princes) long lost son.

I think Jon Con will find out, and Varys will kill him as well once he does.

And what will Aegon do when he finds out who he really is?? I knew he wasn't a Targaryen the whole time, look how different he is from Aegon V in D&E, their characters are not similar at all, to me that was the biggest give away.

I think the plan is that Aegon never knows. It would just be Illyrio's and Vary's (as well as select members of the Golden Company's) inside secret. Their own little "you had to be there" joke.

[Lord_Tyrell]

I doubt this, Doran states he doesn't trust Varys. The author stated that neither Varys nor Illyrio knew about Doran's letter to Ser William Darry which contained a marriage alliance proposal between Arianne and Viserys. If Doran trusted why not contact them about it?

No I doubt Doran and Varys are working together, as for Doran's mole, I suspect that Taena Merryweather is the leak. Or at least I read a theory about that some time ago, but I'm not a specialist on this theory so I can't remember the arguements made and proofs given.

Because I don't think Varys' motives were that openly known. If they were, then his head would have long been on a spike. Doran certainly couldn't trust Varys with his plans.

[mattah84]

What book and page number did Doran say that he mistrusted Varys? Who was he talking to when he said it?

[Mrs.Grumpy]

GRRM said that Varys and Illyrio were not (are not) aware of Arianne/Viserys plot.

[The Duke]

GRRM said that Varys and Illyrio were not (are not) aware of Arianne/Viserys plot.

Because Ser Willem Darry seems to have had their best interests at heart. Varys/Ilyrio.......not so much.

[Lost Melnibonean]

GRRM said that Varys and Illyrio were not (are not) aware of Arianne/Viserys plot.

Is that from an SSM? Do you have the link?

[obvious]

This is an easy one, surely?

As far as the world is concerned, Aegon died as an infant. How then does a teenager, stepping forward years later claiming to be Aegon, persuade the world that he's the real deal?

The obvious (and perhaps the only) way to do this is if a well-known bona fide Targaryen were to publicly acknowledge his identity and his claim to the throne. That is the role Dany (a "sweet, biddable girl") was originally intended to play in Varys's plan. And if along the way she could be used to help recruit him an army, so much the better.

[Lost Melnibonean]

This is an easy one, surely?

As far as the world is concerned, Aegon died as an infant. How then does a teenager, stepping forward years later claiming to be Aegon, persuade the world that he's the real deal?

The obvious (and perhaps the only) way to do this is if a well-known bona fide Targaryen were to publicly acknowledge his identity and his claim to the throne. That is the role Dany (a "sweet, biddable girl") was originally intended to play in Varys's plan. And if along the way she could be used to help recruit him an army, so much the better.

So you're saying that Varys isn't actually a Blackfyre that fell in love with a Targaryen sorcerer conspiring with Gerion Lannister to recruit an army from Valyria and return to Westeros to install the stillborn daughter of Ashara as the rightful queen and take Jon Targaryen as her king who will be warged by Bran until he is assassinated by Arya?

[Roadside Rose]

Some of Varys motives will be clear once we know who the sorcerer was/is. Why was Varys sought out by the sorcerer as a small boy and then castrated by him? Was it so that he could bear no children - thus ending his line.

And if Varys was a Blackfyre, it could be possible that the sorcerer was or sent by a Targaryen.

Another reason Aegon has the support of the Golden Company could be if he descended from a Blackfyre. Bittersteel founded the Golden Company, and Aegon could be his descendent.

If Varys is a Blackfyre, I don't think he will support Dany - I think he plans for her doom.

[Red Raven]

If Varys is a Blackfyre, I don't think he will support Dany - I think he plans for her doom.

Dany and Viserys were just expendable decoys all along.

Send them off to the Dothraki where they'll probably die. If they do survive and can convince the ocean-phobic Dothraki to cross the Narrow Sea, they would soften up Westeros and offend most of lords and smallfolk with their barbaric "screamers." Then along comes Aegon, the "real" heir, to defeat the barbarians and win the hearts of the Westerosi and the throne.

Dany hatching Dragons threw a spanner into the works.

[The Bastard of Summer]

What doesn't make sense at all is why they ever helped Dany to begin with if they had Aegon in training the whole time. Because Dany wasn't meant to ever go to Westeros, Viserys was supposed to be king and the Dothraki were supposed to invade for him, Then westeros would have battled against the invaders. Aegon was supposed to then swoop in and save the day. :dunno:

They didn't know Drogo would die, know one knew that. So if Drogo had lived, nothing with Aegon would have worked out at all, Drogo would have taken his hoarde to KL with Dany and a lot of crazy shit would have gone down, and Drogo would never have shared power with Aegon. See above guess.

And why give the dragon eggs to Dany instead of Aegon? They never thought she would be able to hatch the eggs, They were after all turned to stone.....

If Varys and IIyrio are Blackfyre supporters then what sense does it make to give Dany all the power? Also they didn't know for sure they Viserys would die either.....What is the point of helping Dany, Viserys and Aegon?? Some of this just does not add up at all. I want answers!

[King Tam Stark]

Well, the books states that the Golden Company was originally planning to meet up with Viserys/the Dothraki, so I think the legit Targs were basically pawns to gather more forces to Aegon. If Viserys got in line behind Aegon then fine, I'm sure a known legit Targ backing Aegon would have only been good for Varys' scheme. If in the likely case that he objected then he could have been gotten rid of.

the book states that earlier on when viserys and dany where younger they met with four top gc 'officers' and where basically laughed at

[BricksAndSparrows]

I tend to think there must be more going on regarding Varys support of the Targ. In the ADwD epilogue, I feel like that is the first time we really see the REAL Varys (why act for dead men?)

 

But i can't believe Varys could be such an Altruist and do ALL he has just to put a GOOD person on the Throne. He knows just as well as everyone else how brutal the world can be and how short a reign. Look at all the Targs who died just of sickness (they Talk about it in the adventures of Dunc and Egg.)

 

All of their plans could be undone by a mortified wound from the blades on the Iron Throne. This is what leads me to believe Varys loyalty is to the blood and not the individual. And that is why I am partial to the theory that he might be a Targ himself. Egg shaved his head too...and Jaime. A shaved head is like GRRM's signal for disguise (that last part is half a joke)

[BricksAndSparrows]

Some of Varys motives will be clear once we know who the sorcerer was/is. Why was Varys sought out by the sorcerer as a small boy and then castrated by him? Was it so that he could bear no children - thus ending his line.
And if Varys was a Blackfyre, it could be possible that the sorcerer was or sent by a Targaryen.
Another reason Aegon has the support of the Golden Company could be if he descended from a Blackfyre. Bittersteel founded the Golden Company, and Aegon could be his descendent.
If Varys is a Blackfyre, I don't think he will support Dany - I think he plans for her doom.

Oooooh Maybe the Sorceror was a red preist doing Melisendre's whole "Kings blood" thing... I think you're on to something!

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Red or black a dragon is a dragon. Illyrio and Varys had one known plan .to crown Aegon.

[Texas Hold Em]

What doesn't make sense at all is why they ever helped Dany to begin with if they had Aegon in training the whole time. They didn't know Drogo would die, know one knew that. So if Drogo had lived, nothing with Aegon would have worked out at all, Drogo would have taken his hoarde to KL with Dany and a lot of crazy shit would have gone down, and Drogo would never have shared power with Aegon. And why give the dragon eggs to Dany instead of Aegon? If Varys and IIyrio are Blackfyre supporters then what sense does it make to give Dany all the power? Also they didn't know for sure that Viserys would die either.....What is the point of helping Dany, Viserys and Aegon?? Some of this just does not add up at all. I want answers!

 

I think they were hoping that the three Targaryens would work together.  That is true even now, as evidenced by Illyrio's plan to send Aegon to Dany.  Varys and Illyrio made a lot of assumptions, and Illyrio at least, continues to do so. 

 

Sellswords are not going to be enough to win the throne.  Besides, some guy with a deep pocket like Tywin could make the sellswords a better offer.  Doran's plan was to work up an alliance using Arrianne and Viserys.  Illyrio seems like he was going after the throne using Aegon, real or not. 

[Texas Hold Em]

 

I think they were hoping that the three Targaryens would work together.  That is true even now, as evidenced by Illyrio's plan to send Aegon to Dany.  Varys and Illyrio made a lot of assumptions, and Illyrio at least, continues to do so.   Maybe he also bought into the idea that the dragon must have three heads. 

 

Sellswords are not going to be enough to win the throne.  Besides, some guy with a deep pocket like Tywin could make the sellswords a better offer.  Doran's plan was to work up an alliance using Arrianne and Viserys.  Illyrio seems like he was going after the throne using Aegon, real or not.