Do the Vale lords know Who Alayne Stone is?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

We already got an explanation for why she's allowing it -- she has no choice, because Littlefinger has her cornered financially.

I think it's rather unlikely that Baelish would entrust such a key secret to somebody who isn't securely in his court, before he needed to.

I call shenanigans. Harry is the most eligible marriage prospect in the Vale and one of the top prospects in the entire country. If she's in debt that she has to pay off, all she has to do is demand a hefty dowry from whichever family wants to marry the heir to the Vale. Hell, some families might get into a bidding war for him. If she needs the money that badly, there are other ways to get it. I don't buy the fact that Littlefinger buying up her debt is the sole motivation here.

[Mad Monkey]

Maybe she's sleeping with LF, like every other Vale lady.

[Dornishpenguin]

I'm also sure that several Vale Lords know, but I'm not sure that they are talking about it together because I'm not sure about the level of trust they have for one another. LF has hardly been subtle about Alayne- she was seen with red hair by Lysa's household at the wedding, she is presented before the lords, and now a high profile marriage is being planned for her. I think that he is planting hints so that they have suspicions, but not actually telling them. When they confront him about it, he can feign being a Stark loyalist concerned for the safety of the sole heir. He'll attempt to sow discord among the Lords Declarant again by saying he didn't reveal it beforehand because he was fearful one of them was a spy or Lannister loyalist. Just a pet theory of mine, but it would make sense.

[Heyo Winter Comin']

I'm also sure that several Vale Lords know, but I'm not sure that they are talking about it together because I'm not sure about the level of trust they have for one another. LF has hardly been subtle about Alayne- she was seen with red hair by Lysa's household at the wedding, she is presented before the lords, and now a high profile marriage is being planned for her. I think that he is planting hints so that they have suspicions, but not actually telling them. When they confront him about it, he can feign being a Stark loyalist concerned for the safety of the sole heir. He'll attempt to sow discord among the Lords Declarant again by saying he didn't reveal it beforehand because he was fearful one of them was a spy or Lannister loyalist. Just a pet theory of mine, but it would make sense.

That's actually pretty good, especially if he could use the opportunity to take someone out, like Lyn Corbray. With him gone and the Royces back in the fold with Sansa's reveal Littlefinger could be actually secure in his power at the Vale, with Corbray unable to reveal Littlefinger's machinations.

[Lord Damian]

I must ask this. The last chapter from the Vale comes how close relative time of the news of Tywin's death? Lets face it. All of Westeros knows Sansa is wanted and the descriptions of her are pretty clear. Lysa was known to be her aunt and Littlefinger would be her uncle. This gilr being paraded as his base born daughter shows up looking like the descriptions etc.. People must suspect but since the Lannister-Tyrell alliance is in control in King's Landing, they are saying nothing. However, she has been relatively tucked away in the Vale, now she has decended to the gates of the moon castle and will be around more people. The reveal is comming and soon.

[Jon Flowers]

I must ask this. The last chapter from the Vale comes how close relative time of the news of Tywin's death? Lets face it. All of Westeros knows Sansa is wanted and the descriptions of her are pretty clear. Lysa was known to be her aunt and Littlefinger would be her uncle. This gilr being paraded as his base born daughter shows up looking like the descriptions etc.. People must suspect but since the Lannister-Tyrell alliance is in control in King's Landing, they are saying nothing. However, she has been relatively tucked away in the Vale, now she has decended to the gates of the moon castle and will be around more people. The reveal is comming and soon.

I agree. I find it very likely that one or more of the Royces know Sansa's identity already and the only questions I have are whether or not the Lords of the Vale are unified enough to act together on her and Hardyng's behalf and how soon the whole thing will come to a head. As you say, the death of Lord Tywin can only accelerate the everything and so, what remains is the nagging feeling that this group of people can't unite more than perhaps a majority of their houses behind her and Harry, leading (hopefully not) to more civil war. What makes me skeptical is fact that two of these houses (Hunter and Corbray) do not seem to be united even amongst themselves. Does anyone have any particular ideas regarding the prospects of the Vale being able to reach a consensus regarding succession of a new Lord Paramount without bloodshed?

[Lord Damian]

I agree. I find it very likely that one or more of the Royces know Sansa's identity already and the only questions I have are whether or not the Lords of the Vale are unified enough to act together on her and Hardyng's behalf and how soon the whole thing will come to a head. As you say, the death of Lord Tywin can only accelerate the everything and so, what remains is the nagging feeling that this group of people can't unite more than perhaps a majority of their houses behind her and Harry, leading (hopefully not) to more civil war. What makes me skeptical is fact that two of these houses (Hunter and Corbray) do not seem to be united even amongst themselves. Does anyone have any particular ideas regarding the prospects of the Vale being able to reach a consensus regarding succession of a new Lord Paramount without bloodshed?

Well, actually I suspect another event to happen around the same time as Sansa's reveal. Aegon VI/re-conqueror. Aegon needs allies and his commanders have mentioned that Dorne and THE VALE have armies that have not been in combat. Sansa is marriage material if Arianne of Dorne does not beat her to the punch but then again, the original Aegon had two wives, why not this one too?

[Beathag]

"Myranda gave her a shrewd little smile. “Yes, she was the very soul of wisdom, that good lady.” She shifted her seat. “Why must mules be so bony and ill-tempered? Mya does not feed them enough. A nice fat mule would be more comfortable to ride. There’s a new High Septon, did you know? Oh, and the Night’s Watch has a boy commander, some bastard son of Eddard Stark’s.”

“Jon Snow?” she blurted out, surprised.

“Snow? Yes, it would be Snow, I suppose.” "

She knows Ned Stark's bastard's first name. That would seem a bit out of place to me.

I agree. Sansa dropped her embroidery hoop there. And as noted above the Mad Mouse is sniffing about. And Brienne has found something out, important enough to draw Jaime from his duties.

Wolfswood is right, everyone knows. These are the most poorly kept secrets.

[JungWheats]

Cersei doesn't know.

But LilFinger can't believe he's actually fooled all these people, right?

[The Crow's Third Eye]

The Great Vale Conspiracy: How the Lords Declarant of the Vale are humouring Littlefinger by allowing him to think he has won, while really they know who Sansa is and have been plotting against him all along.

While this is a humorous spin on the GNC, it does actually seem plausible :p Anyone feel a theory coming on :lol:

[bloodofwinterfell]

I agree. Sansa dropped her embroidery hoop there. And as noted above the Mad Mouse is sniffing about. And Brienne has found something out, important enough to draw Jaime from his duties.

Wolfswood is right, everyone knows. These are the most poorly kept secrets.

Brienne hasn't found out anything though, she's luring Jaime into Lady Stoneheart's trap.

Regardless, Sansa's identity isn't going to be a secret much longer, both in the Vale and in Westeros in general. She can't stay hidden forever.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Brienne hasn't found out anything though, she's luring Jaime into Lady Stoneheart's trap.

Regardless, Sansa's identity isn't going to be a secret much longer, both in the Vale and in Westeros in general. She can't stay hidden forever.

Especially as her disguise is basically hair dye and a new name. And she is beginning to.run short on hair dye unless i am much mistaken

[Ramsay's Third Nipple]

I'm also sure that several Vale Lords know, but I'm not sure that they are talking about it together because I'm not sure about the level of trust they have for one another. LF has hardly been subtle about Alayne- she was seen with red hair by Lysa's household at the wedding, she is presented before the lords, and now a high profile marriage is being planned for her. I think that he is planting hints so that they have suspicions, but not actually telling them. When they confront him about it, he can feign being a Stark loyalist concerned for the safety of the sole heir. He'll attempt to sow discord among the Lords Declarant again by saying he didn't reveal it beforehand because he was fearful one of them was a spy or Lannister loyalist. Just a pet theory of mine, but it would make sense.

Genius.

I wouldn't put it past him to be pulling a long con.

[TheHouseHB]

Does anyone think that if Bronze Yohn Royce discovers that Alayne is Sansa and sides with her could he be Rickon's Jon Arryn?

[MegaAIP]

Royce may know or at least suspect it.

[Ladywhiskers]

Ned would have gotten out of town with both girls, had Sansa not gone to Cersei. Yes, someone might have come and arrested him later, or pursued them, but odds are pretty good that he'd have fought them off, and his bannermen would have rallied to him as well. He wouldn't have lost what was left of his household in the Red Keep. Septa Mordane would not have died. Syrio Forel would not have died. Arya would have gone home to Winterfell.

As for the wolf situation, Sansa was the tie breaker. Joffrey had one story, and Arya had another. Cersei believed Joffrey, (or wanted to) and Robert believed Arya. Sansa's testimony, had she chosen to admit Joffrey was lying, would have thrown the relationship with Joffrey into chaos, and that's why she said "I don't know." She couldn't bring herself to lie outright for him, but she was afraid to tell the truth for Arya's sake, either. Ned and Robert both knew exactly what that meant.

But Sansa, the wolves, and even the engagement, would probably have remained intact, because Robert was still King, and with two girls both saying the same story, and Joffrey the lone nay sayer, Robert would have felt pretty good about telling Joffrey to suck it up and stop bullying peasants and little girls. Yes, Sansa would have caught hell for it later, but she did anyway. She did what people do. She let Joffrey get away with a little evil, hoping it was a fluke.

Question: I really don't remember. Did she address Lord Royce by name, before, or after being introduced to him? Because if she just came up and addressed him, that, and not her familiar face, would be the reason he stared at her and asked if he knew her. It's what important people do, when addressed by the lower sort, and he would also have been wondering how she knew him by name.

The Jon Snow moment is weakening my insistence that Sansa isn't stupid. I've held out and held out insisting that she's not dumb, but that's pretty dumb, blurting out his name like that before anyone else has said it.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

I would love to hold Sansa's mistakes against her but she's a kid who doesn't know any better. She wasn't raised to be a Tyrell, she was raised to be exactly who she is. A sweet girl not interested in politics and war.

As for the Vale Lords, I believe most of them know who she is. They just aren't saying. They're probably waiting to see how it plays out.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

I think that quite some of the Vale lords have an idea that Alayne is Sansa. It would be a nice parallel to how a lot of people in the North know that fake!arya isnt Arya

[Chebyshov]

I hadn't really considered this before (only did one AFFC reading so far), but after going through the thread I'd say most definitely know. But this whole thing is really making me judge LF. Did he really think a bottle of dye was enough to fool them? He's portrayed as such a strategist, but this seems a pretty big blunder on his part.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

I hadn't really considered this before (only did one AFFC reading so far), but after going through the thread I'd say most definitely know. But this whole thing is really making me judge LF. Did he really think a bottle of dye was enough to fool them? He's portrayed as such a strategist, but this seems a pretty big blunder on his part.

Not to mention he's turned into a pervy old drunk.