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King Robert's Warhammer

Stannis and Renly

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Was Stannis's move against Renly simply kinslaying? Or was it a legitimate military manoeuvre?

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This will end badly.

Definitely, I'm getting out of here before shit kicks off.

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Depends on everyone`s point of view

This will end badly.

*grabs popcorn*

I don't see why it can't be both.

I also think it`s both

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Technically it was kinslaying, even though Renly would've gladly killed him on a battlefield.

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In Stannis`s eyes, Renly was a traitor, and a thief, and we know how Stannis deals with them. But, it also took a lot of Stannis. I think that no matter how difficult it was for Stannis, he needed to do that.

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I think it woudl have been much harder on Renly, dont think stan has any regret about it. Also i think its alot worse because stan had to use shadow magic to do it.

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The shadowbaby assassination was Stannis' only chance of defeating Renly and being a competitor in the W0t5k. I'd say it was both.

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Melisandre knew...

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Did someone say...FLAME WAR??

Don't think it can count as a military move. Assasination isn't really a military action, particularly when using a demon vag-monster, though I guess it depends on your interpretation of military action. It was undeniably kinslaying though.

But, as we all know, Stannis just can't wait to be king! Bring on the next warcrime!

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cant be both. If they actually had a battle then it would be both but they didnt stan pulled a cheap trick. this is why he will never be king.

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Officially Stannis didn't know what was going to happen to Renly, and we as readers I don't think can say any different with absolute certainty. Melisandre told Stannis Renly was going to die, and he believed her so he attacked Storm's End to draw him to him. And whaddya know, Renly dies. If Stannis was aware that he made a shadowbaby with Mel to kill Renly, it's kinslaying, but it was a legitimate move either way. Playing dirty in war is not against the rules. You do the most with what you have.

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By all the laws of Westeros, Renly was a traitor. He committed treason and the penalty for treason is death. Stannis was perfectly within his rights as king to have his brother, a rebel lord, killed.

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at the beginning of COKs, Stannis talks with his wife about killing Renly,no way he didnt know. Selyse was the first person on page to bring it up, no doubt put in her head by Mel.

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I side with Stannis here. People would call him a kinslayer if they knew the truth just like they called Bloodraven and Maekor kinslayers, but Renly was clearly in the wrong. People say that Stannis does not bend, but he bent very far for Renly. Offered to let him retain all his titles and make him his heir. The use of most likely dark magic is the only sticking point.

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By all the laws of Westeros, Renly was a traitor. He committed treason and the penalty for treason is death. Stannis was perfectly within his rights as king to have his brother, a rebel lord, killed.

Yeah, but by all the laws of Westeros, Stannis is a traitor, for not supporting the Targaryens.

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King of the Kinslaying ; with black art...

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I side with Stannis here. People would call him a kinslayer if they knew the truth just like they called Bloodraven and Maekor kinslayers, but Renly was clearly in the wrong. People say that Stannis does not bend, but he bent very far for Renly. Offered to let him retain all his titles and make him his heir. The use of most likely dark magic is the only sticking point.

Agreed. Mr apparently unbendy Stannis was perfectly willing to forgive Renly for everything he'd done up to that point and somehow Stannis haters seem to overlook that. Bloodraven saved the Targaryen dynasty by kinslaying and he was made to suffer for it.

Yeah, but by all the laws of Westeros, Stannis is a traitor, for not supporting the Targaryens.

Right of conquest. The Targaryens had been overthrown by Robert and the Baratheons were recognized as the legitimate monarchs of Westeros. Renly was attempting to usurp the rightful Baratheon king, Stannis, but he was killed. ;) You could say that Joff won the throne by right of... ah... incest, I suppose.

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