BlackBrother55

Who has the most right to the Iron Throne

81 posts in this topic

technically, gendry appears the oldest of bobby b's barastards, if we're legitimizing bastards gendry has right, but i still stand by edric since he knows his parentage. varys made sure everyone else knew it, too.


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its seems some of my fellow readers of ASOIAF & viewers of GOT don't really understand how royal/noble succession works (that is, laying "claim" to a throne or royal/noble title), & it also seems that some of us are dwelling a little to much on surnames (ie Targayen or Baratheon). The culture of Westeros, just like the real dark age/medieval/renaissance societies that GRRM was inspired by, is based wholly on 3 very important concepts - precedence, legitimacy, & one's pedigree. In other words - where one's royal line began, if one's parents were married or not at the time one's birth, & what family one was born into. The other concept is just how royal/noble one's parents are - for example, in nearly all royal/noble cultures a King or Lord cannot have his heir with a peasant girl or Kitchen wench - both parents must be of relatively the same social rank.



Let us remember a few very important things -



1st - before Aegon I conquered Westeros there was no precedent for one personage ruling the whole of Westeros simultaneously. That means that the royal line begins with him & his legitimate offspring. After the "Dance of the Dragons" it would seem that royal females were barred from succession to the throne in what is called "salic law", or absolute male-preference primogeniture (I cannot recall if this was an actual legal concept in ASOIAF or if it was merely by convention). Whatever the case, a royal male could still lay claim to the throne via a female ancestor. A royal female, it seems, can succeed only if there are no male claimants.



2nd - in spite of the alleged kidnapping of Lyanna Stark by Prince Rhaegar & the disastrous rule of King Aerys II, Robert Baratheon quickly gained support from the great houses not only because he was an attractive immediate alternative to the King but, simply put, Robert himself had the Targaryen pedigree (his paternal grandmother was a Targaryen Princess or, according to the simplified family tree of the TV show, it was his mother who was a Targaryen). Should one follow the Targaryen succession rules (meaning women cannot inherit), then at the start of the rebellion Robert was 4th in line to the throne after Rhaegar, the infant Aegon, & Viserys.



With Robert dead & Joffery & Tommen being Lannister bastards, the throne should pass to Stannis Baratheon. But things get tricky here - if one follows gender-blind primogeniture (like many of the modern-day European monarchies such as Sweden, The Netherlands, Norway, Denmark), then it is Daenarys Targaryen who is the rightful successor & then Stannis after her. But if one follows the male-only route, then it is Stannis 1st, his daughter 2nd, & then Dany 3rd.



Mind you, I am only following birth order here (not dragons or magic or who is more liked than who), but pedigree is very important in a world of royals & nobles ... this concept is the entire reason why Tywin is Lord of Casterly Rock, why Mace Tyrell is Lord of Highgarden, why Ned Stark was Lord of Winterfell, etc., etc.


Edited by Addam Velaryon

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I'd have to say Stannis. Or possibly one of Robert's bastards, but we all know how they are treated so... Stannis.

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Even if Westeros family took it away from them, for me, it's still the Targaryen who are meant to sit on the Iron Throne.


Edited by XTwipz

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Robert won the throne through conquest so the Baratheons have the most right to it! in the eye's of the realm Joffery and Tommen are Robert's son's so they have the most right to it! but as we know their bastard's so as Robert's only surviving brother Stannis has the most right to the throne followed by shireen!


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Truly, you're not right. Because, if you say that Baratheons have the most right to the Thrones, Gendry, his bastard is the true next king. Remember, he's the only true son of Robert :D


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Truly, you're not right. Because, if you say that Baratheons have the most right to the Thrones, Gendry, his bastard is the true next king. Remember, he's the only true son of Robert :D

but he's not a true son!! he's a bastard!! brothers and uncles and cousin's inherit! bastard's have no claim

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Speaking of the throne alone, without the Targaryens there would never have been an iron throne in the first place...so the iron throne belongs to the Targaryens by all rights. But they originally came from Valyria.



So speaking of ownership by heritage, I think Westeros as a land mass belongs to the blood of the first men. And wouldn't that be the Starks?


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Stannis, as Robert's next of kin. Robert had no kids (legitimately) and Renly is younger than Stannis so he never really mattered. Unless Stannis had died- then Renly would be the rightful heir.

However, I hope Dany gets it.

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In my opinion Stannis is the rightful heir to the Throne as he is the next Baratheon after Robert.



1.Daenerys Targaryen technically has no right to the Throne. This is because the Targaryens were defeated by Robert and his army and therefor lost the Throne and a woman would not be allowed or accepted on the throne



2. Joffrey is a bastard born if incest and has no Baratheon blood therefor has no right to the Iron Throne at all.



3. If it were by blood then Gendry would be the rightful heir but again he's a bastard and would never be accepted because bastards are looked down upon


Edited by Cassie Acosta

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Couple of things stand out to me here.





its seems some of my fellow readers of ASOIAF & viewers of GOT don't really understand how royal/noble succession works (that is, laying "claim" to a throne or royal/noble title), & it also seems that some of us are dwelling a little to much on surnames (ie Targayen or Baratheon). The culture of Westeros, just like the real dark age/medieval/renaissance societies that GRRM was inspired by, is based wholly on 3 very important concepts - precedence, legitimacy, & one's pedigree. In other words - where one's royal line began, if one's parents were married or not at the time one's birth, & what family one was born into. The other concept is just how royal/noble one's parents are - for example, in nearly all royal/noble cultures a King or Lord cannot have his heir with a peasant girl or Kitchen wench - both parents must be of relatively the same social rank.



Let us remember a few very important things -



1st - before Aegon I conquered Westeros there was no precedent for one personage ruling the whole of Westeros simultaneously. That means that the royal line begins with him & his legitimate offspring. After the "Dance of the Dragons" it would seem that royal females were barred from succession to the throne in what is called "salic law", or absolute male-preference primogeniture (I cannot recall if this was an actual legal concept in ASOIAF or if it was merely by convention). Whatever the case, a royal male could still lay claim to the throne via a female ancestor. A royal female, it seems, can succeed only if there are no male claimants.



2nd - in spite of the alleged kidnapping of Lyanna Stark by Prince Rhaegar & the disastrous rule of King Aerys II, Robert Baratheon quickly gained support from the great houses not only because he was an attractive immediate alternative to the King but, simply put, Robert himself had the Targaryen pedigree (his paternal grandmother was a Targaryen Princess or, according to the simplified family tree of the TV show, it was his mother who was a Targaryen). Should one follow the Targaryen succession rules (meaning women cannot inherit), then at the start of the rebellion Robert was 4th in line to the throne after Rhaegar, the infant Aegon, & Viserys.



With Robert dead & Joffery & Tommen being Lannister bastards, the throne should pass to Stannis Baratheon. But things get tricky here - if one follows gender-blind primogeniture (like many of the modern-day European monarchies such as Sweden, The Netherlands, Norway, Denmark), then it is Daenarys Targaryen who is the rightful successor & then Stannis after her. But if one follows the male-only route, then it is Stannis 1st, his daughter 2nd, & then Dany 3rd.



Mind you, I am only following birth order here (not dragons or magic or who is more liked than who), but pedigree is very important in a world of royals & nobles ... this concept is the entire reason why Tywin is Lord of Casterly Rock, why Mace Tyrell is Lord of Highgarden, why Ned Stark was Lord of Winterfell, etc., etc.





Historically, yes, male-only primogeniture was a very real thing. This had more to do with people thinking that women were incompetent, but, let's not forget that Elizabeth I ascended the throne once Edward and Mary perished. Women were still part of the tree. You also have Eleanor of Aquitaine, who was more than a mere queen consort in her lifetime and her husband Henry had struggles with controlling Aquitaine because he was viewed as an outsider by her vassals. In other words, yes, male-only primogeniture existed and existed, but it was flexible. Maria Therese of Habsburg is proof of that, so is Victoria of England. I say that this is not fixed in stone.



With no legitimate sons, but daughters bearing the royal blood, those daughters would in turn become monarchs in order of the blood in their veins. (I also contend that the Glorious Revolution was won by a woman's blood, as Mary II was the one who gave Parliament the reason to pull William of Orange into the fray.) Therefore, yes, if one honors the Targaryen bloodline as legitimate, Daenerys could sit on the throne. That being said, I will agree that as a war has passed and changed things, Stannis would be the one with the most legitimate claim as Robert and his heirs claimed the Iron Throne from the Targaryens. Stannis isn't the one whom I think deserves the throne, though; that card goes to Daenerys.


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Stannis is the rightful heir.

True. That's not to say that he is to take the Throne though. In ASOIAF, people rarely get what they rightfully are entitled to.

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Jon Snow, imo. He has a better claim than Dany.



None of the Baratheons are the rightful heirs.


Edited by Moriath

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