Is there a truely evil character in ASOIAF

[The Prince of Ice]

To be honest GRRM writes all his characters as one shade of grey or the other. I know we have some so called "evil"people like the Mad King, Ramsay, Joffery, Walder Frey, Biter, Rorge, Amory Lorch, Gregor Clegane, the list goes on and on but all of these characters have their light and dark in them.Do you think any characters are truly evil?

[Hodor knows]

I'd love to hear more about the light side or Biter or Rorge. :lol:

Pure evil... how about Craster?

[Mladen]

I think we take that `grey element` in characters, way too seriously. There are evil people in the world, as there are good people. Not all of them are somewhere between, and there are actions that are unreedemable. So, yes, there are evil people...

[Nictarion]

Gregor and Ramsay are pretty close.

[The Prince of Ice]

I think we take that `grey element` in characters, way too seriously. There are evil people in the world, as there are good people. Not all of them are somewhere between, and there are actions that are unreedemable. So, yes, there are evil people...

I wasnt talking about the world but i see what your getting at Mladen.

[IRON BANK]

_{We do have some characters that seem to be major shades of grey. I take a look at the actions and justifications of each character and judge from their. I feel Ramsay bolton is a bad character, Gregor Clegane, most of the brave companions seemed like some very bad people.}

[Winterz]

The Mad King used to be a somewhat nice guy. Then those evil Duskend-aliens kidnapped and tortured him for half a year and when he was finally rescue he was pretty nuts, on a grand scale of craziness. He still cared for his son though.

Ramsay no, he's not human. Joffrey just a too spoiled child with some psychopathic reactions.

Amory Lorch and Gregor are dogs nothing else.

While Rorge and Biter are damn evil, they do seem to be human enough, as they're scared shitless of Jaqen.

Walder Frey was always a lil' shite but I wouldn't call him evil though.

[IRON BANK]

I think we take that `grey element` in characters, way too seriously. There are evil people in the world, as there are good people. Not all of them are somewhere between, and there are actions that are unreedemable. So, yes, there are evil people...

True some IMHO make alot of excuses for some characters forgetting that it is a pov, so that character will justify a presumable bad action.

[The Prince of Ice]

Where is the light in Ramsay? I fail to see anything other than evil.

From my perspective tbh i cant think of any, i can see how he became who he was with a father who didnt want him and a mother who never let him forget who he was. Also your familys sigil is a flayed man and are known for being cruel so thats not gonna help your upbringing. I cant seem to find one atm but i bet GRRM "might" be able to tell you one if you asked.

[TheGreatstag]

Bran.

Warging Hodor? Eating Jojen? Pure evil.

[mindchap]

If I had to pick one it would most definitely be Gregor, short of a mind control device, nothing could make his character redeemable. I think what he means with the shades of gray thing is that just like in real life when two peoples fight there are usually just as many scared young men, and women, on both sides of the front lines. People who most likely swore to protect and defend their country not realizing that in fact they are swearing to follow the orders of whoever happens to be in charge, whether their country is threatened or not. And, as is in real life, there are going to be those who find pleasure in some of the most atrocious acts imaginable.

[2fingers]

I think we take that `grey element` in characters, way too seriously. There are evil people in the world, as there are good people. Not all of them are somewhere between, and there are actions that are unreedemable. So, yes, there are evil people...

Thank you. Everytime somebody tries to argue there is no evil people just shades of gray...I often pull out the Hitler card and say try and UNDERSTAND where he is coming from and see if you still see him as a gray person...Just because he likes dogs and was a nice guy to his girlfriend does not make him gray but just a human being who is evil.

I am sure Joffrey and Gregor had their reasons to doing what they did....but they're still evil. Bundy had his reasons for murdering countless innocent women and well if you don't consider him evil that's just another problem entirely.

[Spinebreaker]

I actually think Cersei is hands down the most malevolent character in the series.

Bolton's a cruel opportunist and while that's scummy, it's understandable.

Gregor Clegane (and Ilyn Payne too) is just an obedient soldier (Yes, he takes a *little* too much pleasure in his job).

Joffrey's a product of his upbringing.

Cersei is out and out self obsessed and self-serving. She loves her children more when they are in positions of power. She loves Jaime but only through being his twin it's as close as she can get to 'loving' herself. She's phenomenally cruel, she regards herself first and foremost at all times and seems to have no concept of empathy, compassion or even the word 'love' itself.

Even then. Cersei ain't "Sauron-evil" or "Megatron-Evil"

[Balerion06]

I'd love to hear more about the light side or Biter or Rorge. :lol:

Pure evil... how about Craster?

Playing devil's advocate, but it was Rorge who made Biter what he was by abusing him throughout his childhood.

[Spinebreaker]

Everytime somebody tries to argue there is no evil people just shades of gray...I often pull out the Hitler card and say try and UNDERSTAND where he is coming from and see if you still see him as a gray person...

I'm not defending Hitler, but any look into the history of the period will make it completely obvious to understand where he was coming from.

And even as undeniably horrible historical figure as Hitler...

He introduced a law in France which has saved hundreds if not thousands of lives, Pulled the German economy out of the gutter, and gave them an incredible infra-structure all across the country.

No arguments, Hitler = Very bad man. But even one of (if not THE) the most evil figures in modern history has occasional grey spots then it's easy to see how we can use 'grey' to describe the characters in ASOIAF.

[Daniel Snow]

LEAVE RAMSAY ALONE!! look at his father!!

He was concieved when his mother was raped under the body of her newly wed husband. how must his mother have treated him after that?? he's not purely evil. simply misguided and misunderstood. he just wants to be loved. and he is... by me....

[Caucasian_rodent]

The concept of good and evil is man-made and very changeable. So for different cultures good and evil will differ.

Interestingly enough, no one mentioned a Dothraki in this thread, yet - even though they do all or most of the things you would accuse Gregor Clegane for on a daily basis. The thing is: in their culture these actions are not considered crimes - in fact they are considered something strong people do. A person like Gregor Clegane would fare pretty well in a Dothraki Khalasar.

So in other words: there cannot be a purely good or evil person, because the same action isn't considered equally good or evil in different cultures. It goes without saying that this applies not only to the ASOIAF universe.

[Honey Bee]

I actually think Cersei is hands down the most malevolent character in the series.

Bolton's a cruel opportunist and while that's scummy, it's understandable.

Gregor Clegane (and Ilyn Payne too) is just an obedient soldier (Yes, he takes a *little* too much pleasure in his job).

Joffrey's a product of his upbringing.

Cersei is out and out self obsessed and self-serving. She loves her children more when they are in positions of power. She loves Jaime but only through being his twin it's as close as she can get to 'loving' herself. She's phenomenally cruel, she regards herself first and foremost at all times and seems to have no concept of empathy, compassion or even the word 'love' itself.

Even then. Cersei ain't "Sauron-evil" or "Megatron-Evil"

Love this. And just to add, I hate how she uses her sex to manipulate people to do bad things for her. It makes me so annoyed that she complains no one takes her seriously because she's a woman yet she parades her vagina around. That's not how you hang with the boys, they don't pull that to get political power. Idiot. /end rant

[Daniel Snow]

I'm not defending Hitler, but any look into the history of the period will make it completely obvious to understand where he was coming from.

And even as undeniably horrible historical figure as Hitler...

He introduced a law in France which has saved hundreds if not thousands of lives, Pulled the German economy out of the gutter, and gave them an incredible infra-structure all across the country.

No arguments, Hitler = Very bad man. But even one of (if not THE) the most evil figures in modern history has occasional grey spots then it's easy to see how we can use 'grey' to describe the characters in ASOIAF.

Hitler was not an entirely bad man.

Look at the state of germany after ww1. Hitler brought Germany back to its former glory, and like many leaders in history tried to expand his empire through war.

The holocaust was hitlers one mistake, a very big and evil thing that put a blight on germanys name.

but aside from that he was a great leader who wished to make his country great again.

i just want to emphasize that i am not a nazi or nazi supporter, i just believe that he should be recognised for being a great leader as much as he is an evil one

[mindchap]

I'm not defending Hitler, but any look into the history of the period will make it completely obvious to understand where he was coming from.

And even as undeniably horrible historical figure as Hitler...

He introduced a law in France which has saved hundreds if not thousands of lives, Pulled the German economy out of the gutter, and gave them an incredible infra-structure all across the country.

No arguments, Hitler = Very bad man. But even one of (if not THE) the most evil figures in modern history has occasional grey spots then it's easy to see how we can use 'grey' to describe the characters in ASOIAF.

Actually GRRM made a comment in one interview that Hitler loved dogs thus making him less than a solid evil guy, but I think he was just trying to illustrate that real life is never as "hollywood" as people want to believe.