The connection between Ned and Joffrey

[MaesterHodor]

Hi everyone! None of my theory threads have been doing so well. I'm truly trying my best to give theories that people can agree with but.. I guess my threads aren't well-written enough. From here on out I'm going to focus on making well-evidenced theories that people really can agree with. I hope you'll see that I'm serious and I genuinely believe that these theories are real.

First of all, let me start off by saying that Ned is a Warg--that is, like the other Starks, he can transfer his consciousness into other living beings, with his consciousness controlling the body of that living being he transferred his consciousness into. Why wouldn't Ned be a Warg? All of his children are. Why should his children be Wargs and not him? As long as someone can give me a good reason to the contrary, then I'll assume that Ned is indeed a Warg.

I'm also assuming that Ned knows that he is consciously a Warg. Unlike the other Stark children, he had years and years to practice this skill and be aware that he has developed it. So it's pretty clear, in my mind, that he can use his powers through the sheer force of his will. Let's consider the connection between Ned and Joffrey, which this thread title is based on. During Ned's execution, Ned had two choices: to Warg into someone and live on, or to have his head chopped off and die. I think the choice that Ned was going to pick is pretty clear.

Yes, I believe that Ned Warged into Joffrey on the day of his execution, and spent the rest of his life as Joffrey until Storm of Swords, for the following reasons:

1) to be close to his daughter Sansa and take care of her, marriage and all. Warging into Cersei would not allow him to be close to his daughter.

2) to ruin the Lannisters by being a bad King, and allow the North to win a predictable war.

3) to spy on the Small Council and give information to the North when possible.

Ned, with his consciousness inside Joffrey, acted as Joffrey until his death during the Purple Wedding for these reasons. He even had to command his daughter Sansa to be beaten, for the sake of his act so that he could allow the North to win the war, so that no one would notice Joffrey acting out of the ordinary. Ned truly must have been an honorable man to show Sansa his former body's head and say he wanted to serve Sansa Robb's head during his wedding--all for the reason of keeping his act up.

I have one piece of evidence for this theory that I think is really convincing. Joffrey was never a POV character. This means that GRRM was trying to keep Joffrey's true identity a secret. He didn't want readers to see Joffrey's (Ned's) guilt when he commanded his daughter beaten, and so on. GRRM was wise.

The implications of this theory are the following: Ned died during the Purple Wedding, and Joffrey was the one who died (or was replaced, anyway) during his execution. What do you guys think?

[blood of the dragoon]

Just... no

[MasterJack]

I think the Stark Children became warg by raising their direwolf since this is the common factor their share, which any other stark in (known)history hasnt. Ned's direwolf was killed by a deer. :D

[Tiki]

I think the Stark Children became warg by raising their direwolf since this is the common factor their share, which any other stark in (known)history hasnt. Ned's direwolf was killed by a deer. :D

Sansa was confirmed to be a Warg by GRRM (or so I hear) and she didn't really raise one for very long.

[Hodor knows]

[MasterJack]

Sansa was confirmed to be a Warg by GRRM (or so I hear) and she didn't really raise one for very long.

Ill change my wording; their are the only Stark to share a bond of trust with a magical direwolf, who werent seen this side of the wall for centuries.

[blood of the dragoon]

Ill change my wording; their are the only Stark to share a bond of trust with a magical direwolf, who werent seen this side of the wall for centuries.

And great wording it is.

[Leif]

I wanna be the very best

Like no one ever was

To troll them is my real test

To annoy them is my cause

I will travel across the boards

Searching far and wide

Each poster to understand

The troll that's inside

Trolling-Man, its you and me I know it’s my destiny

Trollin'-Man, oh, you're my best friend on a forum we must offend

Trolling-Man, a post so true

Our crackpot will pull us through

You troll me and I'll troll you

Troll-ing-Man

Gotta troll 'em all, gotta troll 'em

Trollin'-Man!

[Dragonstar]

I have one piece of evidence for this theory that I think is really convincing. Joffrey was never a POV character. This means that GRRM was trying to keep Joffrey's true identity a secret. He didn't want readers to see Joffrey's (Ned's) guilt when he commanded his daughter beaten, and so on. GRRM

Yes I can see your point, very clear evidence there. Case closed. Ned beheaded himself and beat up his daughter and laughed maniacally at hearing of his son and wife's death.

[mynameiskyle]

Please share whatever it is you've been smoking sir. Apparently mine isn't as good as yours :bowdown:

ETA: Does anyone else find it hilarious his name is "MaesterHodor" ?

[Roadside Rose]

Relax. Don't be so hard on yourself.

Go read the books, and then think on your theories.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I wanna be the very best

Like no one ever was

To troll them is my real test

To annoy them is my cause

I will travel across the boards

Searching far and wide

Each poster to understand

The troll that's inside

Trolling-Man, its you and me I know it’s my destiny

Trollin'-Man, oh, you're my best friend on a forum we must offend

Trolling-Man, a post so true

Our crackpot will pull us through

You troll me and I'll troll you

Troll-ing-Man

Gotta troll 'em all, gotta troll 'em

Trollin'-Man!

Trolling-Man!

[Father of Hosts]

He does better than most, I'll give him that. These are becoming some of the better late-night reads.

[Bridgeburners]

I had a good laugh at this post. Well done OP. :rofl:

[The Prince of Ice]

Im not even gonna start on how absurd this is but i like the creativity OP got me cracking up a bit touche.

Also Joffery being an incestous bastard which probably means his brain is most likely not fully functional, being a child and an overall fucked up sociopath had nothing at all to do with his decisions he made. Yea that sounds about right.

[MaesterHodor]

I find it hard to believe that someone can be as evil as Joffrey. It seems overdone and fake to me.

[The friendly Wight]

Joffery being an incestous bastard which probably means his brain is most likely not fully functional, being a child and an overall fucked up sociopath had nothing at all to do with his decisions he made. Yea that sounds about right.

I'd say that about covers it..

Seriously, IF Ned in fact warged someone, my money's on Illyn Payne.

[Dolan Baratheon]

No, Ned warged into Sandor Clegane.

[The Prince of Ice]

I'd say that about covers it..

Seriously, IF Ned in fact warged someone, my money's on Illyn Payne.

if Ned was a warg which i highly doubt, if he was to be honest wouldnt he have some sort of animal companion? i know some say he could not be aware of it but if your not aware of bring a warg then im assuming you havent awakened the power so i dont think Ned would have warged into anyone when he died. This goes for Sansa as well IMO atm atleast, if she died now i dont think she would warg into a bird. This is all a guess but i beleive you have to be aware you are a warg or just aware of the power to actually have the powers activated. Jon and Robb probably didnt know they were wargs but they were aware of their power as is Arya.

[Direwolf of the Starks]

This topic gve me cancer