Sweetrobin, sweetsleep, lemoncakes, Sansa and the gruesome fate of kinslayers

[Mickys]

Sansa has already given her contribution in Robyn poisoning. before descending from the Eyre, she ordered the Master another two doses of sweetsleep to calm him, even after the Master repeated warnings that it was dangerous. i think she did understand the gravity of Robyn situation but she simply choose to ignore it "father and i have larger concerns". i don't understand why people always forget this passage when talking about Sansa in TWOW.

and for the controversial chapter, Ran and Linda were very amused in the ep.8 video review about it, so i don't really know what to think. but the struggle is real for her, and maybe who knows? right now i don't see a good/happy future for her.

[JungWheats]

The way I see it, GRRM can accomplish Sansa learning from LF and becoming to play the game, without the need to kill Sweetrobin. I think it more likely that we'll be lead to believe she's going to do it, only to pull the ol' switcheroo and have her poison LF instead. It sets her up as the new LF, but keeps her from some terrible fate down the line.

[Logodnica]

But its clearly stated that from all the Stark children, Sansa is the least attached to Jon. I saw some possible foreshadowing for Jon+Sansa in AGOT

The him in this sentence is Janos Slynt and and as we know Jon cut his head off

Ah!! I did not catch this before! Thank you for pointing it out

[Talking Hodor]

Is killing a cousin classed as kinslaying?

Karstark tried to claim Robb was kinslaying him just because his great great great grandfather was a brother of a Stark or something. I'd not go so far as to say he was right, but I think cousins definitely count. I'd never heard the theory that Theon's bastard children were the farmer's children he had killed. Makes sense.

I'd guess that Littlefinger poisons Sweetrobin, or the little toerag accidentally kills himself - twitches off the side of a mountain or something.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

Sansa's not going to kill Robin.

And I don't foresee a "happy ending" for any Starks, at this point. By definition, it's impossible. How can you have a happy ending with your father, mother, and eldest brother brutally murdered? Bran's a tree. Arya's a psychopathic killing machine. Even if the rest of the story goes like a fairytale, it'll still be bittersweet.

[Lanie A]

I'm going back a few posts here, but Cousins marry cousins in ASOIAF all the time, so if Jon and Sansa are merely cousins, which I believe they are, then this could be a match. Besides, weren't SR and Sansa supposed to marry while Lysa was alive? They're first cousins.

[Ulthosian Stark]

Robin arryn is not going to die, i am sure of it.

harry the heir is doomed, he will definitely die.

Sansa is married to Tyrion already.

But Aegon OR Jon are widely considered as Sansas endgame husband due to the 5th suitor theory.

From tumblr -

The Fifth Suitor

In the Hedge Knight, Dunk and Egg go to a tourney held at Ashford to celebrate Lord Ashford's daughter's 13th name-day. Lady Ashford has 5 champions fighting on her behalf and anyone who defeats a champion ends up replacing their opponent as a champion for Lady Ashford. In the end, the 5 champions who end up defending Lady Ashford are:

• Lyonel Baratheon
• Leo Tyrell
• Tybolt Lannister
• Humfrey Hardyng
• Prince Valarr Targaryen

When you look at the names of the champions' families and the fact they fight for a 13 year old maid, especially with the family Hardying, we find out that they correspond strongly with Sansa's suitors in A Song of Ice and Fire.

• Sansa's first betrothed to Joffrey Baratheon
• Sansa's then planned to be wed to Willas Tyrell
• Sansa's married to Tyrion Lannister
• Sansa's now being betrothed to Harry Hardyng

So number 5 can be Jon OR Aegon Targaryen.

Oooof. Good catch. Makes so much sense it hurts.

I would actually be quite content with Sansa coming out of all her misfortune, watching her father be executed etc, by getting her fairytale marriage to a dragon prince.

just had a disturbing thought of Jon finding Sansa dying in a Tower and him having to promise her something... ToJ 2.0. Though I'd peg Arya more for that scenario. As sansa seemed to hate Jon, though them being perceived as the only members of the inner Stark household left I think she can forgive him being a bastard

[sabrecmc]

I have come around to actually not hating the idea of Jon and Sansa. They seemed to have had little relationship of any kind as kids, so it doesn't seem as weird as it first did. I don't really remember getting the sense that Sansa hated Jon, just was more or less following her mom's cues on that one and basically treated him as a non-entity. Indifference and contempt, but not exactly hate...But it has been ages since I read GoT. I do seem to recall Jon describing Sansa as beautiful when Joffrey is escorting her to dinner, but again, I could very well be mistaken on that.

Back to topic, I hope Sansa doesn't actually kill Sweetrobin. I can see her using it somehow to her advantage to convince LF she is on his side, but actually murdering a child, even an annoying one? That would be a pretty big step down the road to non-redeemable.

[wallofice]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sansa kills LF to stop him from killing SweetRobin, then hightails it out of the Vale with Shadrich. She may up the price Varys offered Shadrich to get her to a newly Bolton-free Winterfell.

This is my dream scenario. :thumbsup:

I know everyone expects Sweetrobin to already be a goner because of the double dose of sweetsleep, but there are so many reasons that makes little sense to me. The Maester might have been concerned about the danger to Robin's health, but if he really thought it could kill him, why would he trust the decision making skills of the Lord Protector's bastard daughter? That's spectacularly awful Maester-ing. Besides, if Robin dies then Sansa and Littlefinger are done at the Vale, as there's no way Harry marries 'Alayne' when she has absolutely nothing to offer.

ETA: As for Jon and Sansa, I don't know that there's enough time to believably set them up for a romantic endgame. But if Jon finds out his true heritage, and the North and South must be reconciled through some political marriage, I'm sure they'd rather be married to each other than to strangers. Plus, I don't think they ever hated each other. He thinks about her giving him advice on how to talk to girls, and she's got those "all that's left of Winterfell" and "it would be so sweet to see him again" thoughts about him.

[Ser Gareth]

Finally, while Turner has begun shooting scenes for Game of Thrones Season 5, she couldn't (understandably) offer specific details where her character is going. However, she did reveal a "big change" is coming for Sansa Stark.

I can't reveal much, but there's a big change for her this season and there's a few familiar faces around

So it seems in season 5 of the show she is going to interact with other main cast characters again. The show going off on its own or as GRRM assisted them with her arc? I really hope it's the former because whilst the show isn't perfect I will miss it if I have to stop watching it because it overtakes the books.

But if the big change to Sansa is also going to happen in TWOW I wonder if she is going to turn a little nasty and ruthless. I still think Cersei is going to find out where she is, send Robert Strong after her (maybe he can climb the Eyrie because of what he is) and Jaime and the Hound will battle Strong (Hound will die killing it). Jamie will live.

[CountFJM]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Sansa reveals who she is when the Lords of the Vale confront LF about Lysa's death, right? She's not "in character" as Alayne?

I do remember in that scene that its Sansa's choice to lie on LF's behalf about his part in Lysa's murder, rather than have it be a speech he fed her like in the books -- that plus her coquettish final scene in s4 (with LF is staring at her walk down the stairs) suggests the show made a conscious decision to give her more agency in manipulating LF, rather than the other way around. I don't know if this will be a break from her storyline in WoW, or an acceleration of the process where she matures into a player rather than a piece. I hope it's the latter.

[Snow Dragon]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Sansa reveals who she is when the Lords of the Vale confront LF about Lysa's death, right? She's not "in character" as Alayne?

I do remember in that scene that its Sansa's choice to lie on LF's behalf about his part in Lysa's murder, rather than have it be a speech he fed her like in the books -- that plus her coquettish final scene in s4 (with LF is staring at her walk down the stairs) suggests the show made a conscious decision to give her more agency in manipulating LF, rather than the other way around. I don't know if this will be a break from her storyline in WoW, or an acceleration of the process where she matures into a player rather than a piece. I hope it's the latter.

I'm pretty sure this was just a surprising turn the series took from the books.

In the books, if i remember correctly, Sansa is playing Alayne during a scene where LF is sitting with the Lords of the Vale (Alayne is serving).

LF manages to turn their accusations around by having one of the Lord's threaten him after they have begun eating and thus doing the reverse of breaking the guest right. The others are forced to apologise because he has transformed the entire social situation. Alayne remains Alayne.

[Colonel Green]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Sansa reveals who she is when the Lords of the Vale confront LF about Lysa's death, right?

No, that's a TV deviation.

[It_is_Known_]

Not sure if this has been stated already.. AND I'm fully aware that what I'm about to say took place in the TV Series rather than the books. Nonetheless.. During season 4, remember when Jaime & Tyrion had that conversation before the big fight? Most thought it to be completely pointless but honestly there had to be some kind of meaning to it, right? I saw, at the beginning of the thread at least, people were scared Sansa would be accursed for kinslaying if she poisoned Robin, but it was stated in Jaime & Tyrion's conversation that the only kind of family killing that "didn't have a name for it" was killing a cousin. I don't know maybe that was random or maybe that could be foreshadowing someone killing their cousin at some point.

[Snow Dragon]

Not sure if this has been stated already.. AND I'm fully aware that what I'm about to say took place in the TV Series rather than the books. Nonetheless.. During season 4, remember when Jaime & Tyrion had that conversation before the big fight? Most thought it to be completely pointless but honestly there had to be some kind of meaning to it, right? I saw, at the beginning of the thread at least, people were scared Sansa would be accursed for kinslaying if she poisoned Robin, but it was stated in Jaime & Tyrion's conversation that the only kind of family killing that "didn't have a name for it" was killing a cousin. I don't know maybe that was random or maybe that could be foreshadowing someone killing their cousin at some point.

I agree, & I know its not nice to think it, but this could be the controversial Sansa chapter. She has already ordered him an extra dose of sweetsleep

[Crazy Joe Wilson]

I agree, & I know its not nice to think it, but this could be the controversial Sansa chapter. She has already ordered him an extra dose of sweetsleep

Specifically for the purpose of getting him down the mountain without having a violent shaking episode. Sansa is beginning to play the game and understands that appearances are a big deal for Westerosi nobility, and if Sweetrobin starts having a terrible shaking fit all the Lords of the Vale will be clued in to just how unstable the Lord of the Vale truly is.

I don't think Sansa is going to poison sweetrobin 1)because her engagement to Harry the Heir, if the 5 Suitors Theory is correct ( and I can't see G.R.R.M. putting in such a strange coincidence without it meaning something) will end up to mean nothing, and 2)because it's not in Sansa's character to look into poisoning any otherwise innocent child. One of Sansa's defining characteristics throughout her ordeal in ASOIAF is her kindness, and her ability to adapt and survive while not losing that part of her. Killing a kid to play the game would be a major betrayal of that.

My best guess is Sansa will become a major player in her own right in Winds of Winter by tripping up Baelish or getting him caught/killed. She'll find some sort of opening to exploit, maybe even taking advantage of his romantic feelings for her, as icky as that will be. If Sweetrobin does die, it'll be at the hands of either a Lord Declarant or Baelish.

[Steelborn]

We know that Sansa is fond of lemoncakes and in a recent interview GRRM hinted that lemoncakes will appear.

That is definitely THE cliffhanger I was most eager to see. OMG. With all of this winter it'd be hard for them to appear, but thankgod Martin has confirmed.

[Carey Snow]

That is definitely THE cliffhanger I was most eager to see. OMG. With all of this winter it'd be hard for them to appear, but thankgod Martin has confirmed.

Lemons are going to be tough to come by. Septon Meribald is carrying some of the last Oranges Westeros will taste for quite awhile, I am afraid. Lemons will be equally rare. Sansa's favorite cakes will be tough to make without lemons.

[Steelborn]

Lemons are going to be tough to come by. Septon Meribald is carrying some of the last Oranges Westeros will taste for quite awhile, I am afraid. Lemons will be equally rare. Sansa's favorite cakes will be tough to make without lemons.

So, is it already a confirmation now that lemoncakes are Lightbringer?

ps: not crackpot.

[Steelborn]

:bowdown: