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I gotta bad feeling about Sansa in TWOW


The Black Hawk

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Sansa really has suffered enough, I don't have a bad feeling, I have a fairly good feeling. At the moment she is in the best place she could be and she has opportunities around her. It won't be all fun for her, but since escaping King's Landing it has almost all been going up for her. If she ever marries Harry, it probably won't be the marriage she dreamed of (not with 2 bastards), but it won't be horrific either. Harry probably is a fairly good guy with multiple flaws, like Robert. For the people saying she can't marry him because she's already married to Tyrion: I remember Tyrion being already married too (with consumation). Surely there are ways to get rid of the marriage.

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i agree her story is difficult to predict but one thing i believe we can safely say - well as safely as one can say considering it's grrm - is that she will not be marrying harry the heir since she is already married to tyrion the imp.

The law of Westeros is the law of convenience and the law of power. Why readers continue to operate under the idea that technicalities hold sway is something of a mystery to me.

I think I should also point out the fact that the author repeatedly emphasized, not only that Sansa never had sex with Tyrion, but that this was common knowledge among everyone. There is a reason for that.

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Not every woman has to be raped so her suffering would be great. Look at Catelyn who gave the most horrific POV chapter after which half of us needed a break. Look at Arya, Brienne or many other female characters. The fact is that there are different ways to hurt a woman, beside raping her. And that's apparently some of you forget.

I have to say, I don't have the bad feeling about Sansa. With all foreshadowing, miseries she survived and strength she gained, with all oportunities GRRM had. I doubt we'll ever see her being sexually abused. Also, I think that after everything she survived, a ray of sunshine would be nice for her, and here her storyline is headed, we can say she is going to have some happiness down the road.

Thank you.

What's with the obsession on why Sansa hasn't been raped yet? It's not the only way to write suffering in her story.

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Sansa will have a brighter future, I'm sure of it. She's made a new friend in Mya Stone and I think she's genuine/will look after her. Out of all the characters, I think Sansa is finally emerging from her dark tunnel to have a better tomorrow. Just as Lyanna avoided a marriage to an unfaithful man so will Sansa. She will turn what Littlefinger has taught her against him, and be the first Stark in a great long while to be in a good place.

We'll have to wait quite awhile longer before any of the other Starks can enjoy similar luxuries.

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The law of Westeros is the law of convenience and the law of power. Why readers continue to operate under the idea that technicalities hold sway is something of a mystery to me.

I think I should also point out the fact that the author repeatedly emphasized, not only that Sansa never had sex with Tyrion, but that this was common knowledge among everyone. There is a reason for that.

i suppose readers continue to operate under the idea that she is married because the characters in the story do. no mystery there. the author may have shown tyrion not having sex with her but no one in the books is insinuating that she is not legally married. even littlefinger discussed tyrion's death as the way to freeing sansa not a technicality or loop hole that will allow sansa to slip out of it.

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Thank you.

What's with the obsession on why Sansa hasn't been raped yet? It's not the only way to write suffering in her story.

Oh, we both know where that comes from. For me rape is the most hideous crime, but certainly someone can suffer even without that. This ideology that Sansa should suffer rape in order to become truly a tragic character. For me, each of Stark women are tragic enough just the way it is.Catelyn with her loss, Arya with one big identity crisis, and Sansa with all those beatings she endured. Just like man can suffer from other source than sword, like Sam or Tyrion, women can suffer from other reasons that doesn't include rape...

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Yes, but if Sansa marries Harry the Heir, who is going to tell him that he's not married? The Iron Throne? If he married Sansa, that would already, in effect, make him a rebel lord. At that point, nobody in the Vale would care what Cersei Lannisters thinks. They would be in open rebellion.

The same applies to Cersei's children. Almost everyone at this point knows that they are not legitimate. Including the Tyrells. Now try telling Mace Tyrell that his daughter isn't queen.

That's my point. In Westeros, might is right. If Sweet Robin dies and Harry Arryn wants to marry Sansa Stark, so be it. Let the Lannisters and Tyrells try to say otherwise.

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I do also think that after LF's failed attempt to rape her, Sansa will kill LF, given that the Titan's Daughter is referred to as using purple sails, like the color of the strangle. She still has the hairnet. After she kills him, she will mount a horse and flee her wedding to Harry the Heir and is captured by Ser Shadrich, or Lannister men will be sent to the Eyrie to take Sansa back to KL after the Mad Mouse sends a raven to KL.

Sansa will be taken back to KL, and brought before Cersei.

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That's my point. In Westeros, might is right. If Sweet Robin dies and Harry Arryn wants to marry Sansa Stark, so be it. Let the Lannisters and Tyrells try to say otherwise.

and my point is that it will be sansa that says otherwise. she already has. it's the whole point to having her married to tyrion in the first place.

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I do also think that after LF's failed attempt to rape her, Sansa will kill LF, given that the Titan's Daughter is referred to as using purple sails, like the color of the strangler, we can know how she strikes. After she kills him, she will mount a horse and flee her wedding to Harry the Heir and is captured by Ser Shadrich, or Lannister men will be sent to the Eyrie to take Sansa back to KL after the Mad Mouse sends a raven to KL.

Sansa will be taken back to KL, and brought before Cersei.

it would be grossly out of character for littlefinger to move in an openly aggressive and violent manner toward sansa. i am almost positive that he will not attempt to rape her. that is not the controversy that will happen in her chapter. it would make no sense.

but i can see sansa being taken back to king's landing, one way or another.

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Oh, we both know where that comes from. For me rape is the most hideous crime, but certainly someone can suffer even without that. This ideology that Sansa should suffer rape in order to become truly a tragic character. For me, each of Stark women are tragic enough just the way it is.Catelyn with her loss, Arya with one big identity crisis, and Sansa with all those beatings she endured. Just like man can suffer from other source than sword, like Sam or Tyrion, women can suffer from other reasons that doesn't include rape...

She was a tragic character the moment she had to watch her father get beheaded.
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She was a tragic character the moment she had to watch her father get beheaded.

I agree with that. That's why I don't realize why we need to add rape to make her truly tragic as some posters suggests. I mean, in my book, her sufferings are quite tragic for 12 year-old girl.

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I do also think that after LF's failed attempt to rape her, Sansa will kill LF, given that the Titan's Daughter is referred to as using purple sails, like the color of the strangler, we can know how she strikes. After she kills him, she will mount a horse and flee her wedding to Harry the Heir and is captured by Ser Shadrich, or Lannister men will be sent to the Eyrie to take Sansa back to KL after the Mad Mouse sends a raven to KL.

Sansa will be taken back to KL, and brought before Cersei.

The more I read about this, the better it sounds... :). Although I am hoping for killing LF, and then showdown with Dany when she arrives with Tyrion in Vale

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Oh, we both know where that comes from. For me rape is the most hideous crime, but certainly someone can suffer even without that. This ideology that Sansa should suffer rape in order to become truly a tragic character. For me, each of Stark women are tragic enough just the way it is.Catelyn with her loss, Arya with one big identity crisis, and Sansa with all those beatings she endured. Just like man can suffer from other source than sword, like Sam or Tyrion, women can suffer from other reasons that doesn't include rape...

Despite the obsession with this topic, I also don't think it'll happen. Martin needs to not just write the event but the aftermath, this one thing would then take over much of her story -if Martin writes it in a responsible manner. That is not a story I have any desire to read.

and my point is that it will be sansa that says otherwise. she already has. it's the whole point to having her married to tyrion in the first place.

Agreed. Sansa hardly thinks of Tyrion in Feast yet her marriage is immediately brought up to LF in her final chapter. She doesn't want to be married to him but it is still a shield at this point.

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Despite the obsession with this topic, I also don't think it'll happen. Martin needs to not just write the event but the aftermath, this one thing would then take over much of her story -if Martin writes it in a responsible manner. That is not a story I have any desire to read.

And for me, it's more than that. I mean, if he wanted her raped, he would have done that long ago. I mean, he made Dany raped at her second or third AGOT chapter, and he hasn't done the same with Sansa for four books? And with all occasion he had at disposal? For me, he is building Elizabeth I-character in Sansa. Strong, but with great sense for art. Tossed from one marriage to another, woth sole purpose of her claim. I doubt she will end up married to a country, but Sansa has tendency to become ASOIAF's Elizabeth I.

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it would be grossly out of character for littlefinger to move in an openly aggressive and violent manner toward sansa. i am almost positive that he will not attempt to rape her. that is not the controversy that will happen in her chapter. it would make no sense.

but i can see sansa being taken back to king's landing, one way or another.

Remember, this is the same LF who forcibly kissed Sansa in the godswood at the Eyrie and at the end of AFfC. Not to mention he started the Wo5K as revenge against the Tullys and Starks for Cat's rejection of him and Brandon kicking his ass, and possibly for Ned marrying Cat.

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We are told in the books though that an unconsummated marriage is easily set aside. and then its made very clear that Sansa's marriage to Tyrion in never consummated. I do think this will be the way out of that marriage for her.

aye, because grrm loves taking the easy way out.

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I do think he told us this for a reason though, and I also think that not everything has to be intricate and complex. I just don't see it being this huge drawn out plot to get her out of the marriage, LF is a clever man and he wouldn't have planned all this for Sansa without knowing how to set her first marriage aside. He is manipulative, influential, and has access to money for bribes. I'm thinking he has it in hand.

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