The Great Northern Conspiracy REALISTICALLY/and GRRM comments?

[drayrock]

First off I want to ask has GRRM ever commented on the theory of the great northern conspiracy?

Secondly I just finished reading this (a pretty thorough run through of TGNC): http://www.the-mainboard.com/index.php?threads/the-north-remembers-the-great-northern-conspiracy-major-book-4-5-spoilers-6-part-essay.123206/

How much of the theory do you believe. I do imagine that Howland knows of Jon's crowning of King in the North and I can imagine his reveal being a chapter ender...something like "No, not King of the North...King of the realm" Cue rhaegar reveal.

But I also believe the manderlys will betray the frays but how much the other houses will jump right back into the fray having lost so many men already and having winter so close is somewhat hard for me to believe.

[First of My Name]

I'm not really a believer, but I guess it's plausible. I don't recall ever reading a GRRM comment on it.

[Joe Pine]

First off I want to ask has GRRM ever commented on the theory of the great northern conspiracy?

Secondly I just finished reading this (a pretty thorough run through of TGNC): http://www.the-mainboard.com/index.php?threads/the-north-remembers-the-great-northern-conspiracy-major-book-4-5-spoilers-6-part-essay.123206/

How much of the theory do you believe. I do imagine that Howland knows of Jon's crowning of King in the North and I can imagine his reveal being a chapter ender...something like "No, not King of the North...King of the realm" Cue rhaegar reveal.

But I also believe the manderlys will betray the frays but how much the other houses will jump right back into the fray having lost so many men already and having winter so close is somewhat hard for me to believe.

Fair enough. Slight issue in that Jon's at the wall with six knifes hanging out of him.

[drayrock]

I'm not really a believer, but I guess it's plausible. I don't recall ever reading a GRRM comment on it.

I agree I don't think its like a great conspiracy to get JON there but I think there is a great conspiracy to screw over at the very least the freys and if the opportunity presented itself the boltons

[Joe Pine]

I agree I don't think its like a great conspiracy to get JON there but I think there is a great conspiracy to screw over at the very least the freys and if the opportunity presented itself the boltons

I agree I'm wondering if they stick with Stannis once they're done with the Boltons, or if they use Stannis to then go slaughter the Freys.

[Queen Elsa]

How much of the theory do you believe. I do imagine that Howland knows of Jon's crowning of King in the North and I can imagine his reveal being a chapter ender...something like "No, not King of the North...King of the realm" Cue rhaegar reveal.

This is a good theory but I wonder which among the great and small Houses of the Seven Kingdoms are going to believe Jon's parentage, help him conquer and unite the broken realm, and put him on the Iron Throne?

[Petyr Patter]

If you are asking if the major Northern houses are weighing options to get rid of Bolton/Freys/Lannisters... "No Duh!" Hatred runs deep in the North

However, the idea that all these houses, some like Manderly's swarming with spies and informants, have created a highly technical strategy to beat both Stannis and Bolton and restore a Stark who knows nothing to King in the North is harder to believe.

Of course they want to rebel. They are looking for such an opportunity. They didn't expect Stannis to show up, and before Stannis united himself with the Tribesmen and fought off the Ironmen, they saw him as another "southerner" and pretender.

I don't think they will crown anyone King of the North as long as Stannis lives. Just isn't the Northern way of doing things.

[drayrock]

This is a good theory but I wonder which among the great and small Houses of the Seven Kingdoms are going to believe Jon's parentage, help him conquer and unite the broken realm, and put him on the Iron Throne?

I don't think the small houses matter really nor does his claim to the iron throne. Jon' knows the true issues he's not going to leave the north, do you really see him going south? It's not him. I think his parentage with only play into his getting necessary allies for the long night aka danny and dragons and maybe uniting the 7 kingdoms into seeing the real issue...the others

[Joe Pine]

I don't think the small houses matter really nor does his claim to the iron throne. Jon' knows the true issues he's not going to leave the north, do you really see him going south? It's not him. I think his parentage with only play into his getting necessary allies for the long night aka danny and dragons and maybe uniting the 7 kingdoms into seeing the real issue...the others

for me, he'll only go south of the neck to deal with the Freys at the twins.

[Macho Hand of the King]

Fair enough. Slight issue in that Jon's at the wall with six knifes hanging out of him.

Or two... but why let a little thing like details get in the way...

I would certainly like to believe in TGNC. It would give the story a level of depth unlike anything I have ever read. I just don't put much stock in GRRM giving us anything quite at that level. I believe Manderly has worked out a plan to flip the tables on Frey and Bolton with help from several key Northern lords, but that is probably the extent of it. I also see a scenario where everything doesn't necessarily go according to plan.

[Joe Pine]

Or two... but why let a little thing like details get in the way...

Does it matter if its two, four, six or a hundred knifes. How does Jon get from the wall to Winterfell if that's how his story is to progress?

[Ser Luke.]

I guess I believe in it. I'd like to think either Jon/Stannis will become King, and Rickon will become the King in the North.

Knowing Martin though.......

[grod823]

If this theory is true, as is the theory of Jon being born of Rhaegar Targaeryan and Lyanna Stark, then (theoretically), Jon Snow is now not only the king of the north by decree, but also, the heir to the iron throne (prior to Robert Baratheon taking over KL.

All of Robb's bannermen affixed their seals to this request that was sent to Howland Reed confirming the legitimization of Jon in the sight of Gods and men (2 decoys were sent with fake letters). While I might be completely wrong on this, what I am most confident in is that Howland Reed is going to play a major role in how the North is decided.

[Macho Hand of the King]

Does it matter if its two, four, six or a hundred knifes. How does Jon get from the wall to Winterfell if that's how his story is to progress?

When it could mean the difference between dead or alive, yes, it does matter. There are a multitude of "outs" available, but Jon "dying" and coming back (whether via warging or the Last Kiss) would just be too much. For a guy (GRRM) who wants to go against the fantasy fiction grain as much as he does, those two options are so cliche they seem ruinous. TGNC is wonderfully thought provoking, the theories on what exactly happens to Jon next have been disappointingly bland.

[mushroomshirt]

When it could mean the difference between dead or alive, yes, it does matter. There are a multitude of "outs" available, but Jon "dying" and coming back (whether via warging or the Last Kiss) would just be too much. For a guy (GRRM) who wants to go against the fantasy fiction grain as much as he does, those two options are so cliche they seem ruinous. TGNC is wonderfully thought provoking, the theories on what exactly happens to Jon next have been disappointingly bland.

There was a very interesting thread a month ago or so that considered the possibility that Jon is actually dead. I don't think this is likely (there is too much foreshadowing that he will live and somehow warging into ghost will be involved, IMO). But it would actually be the most cliche busting thing since Ned and the Red Wedding if Jon actually stayed dead.

[hodoronthethrone]

If this theory is true, as is the theory of Jon being born of Rhaegar Targaeryan and Lyanna Stark, then (theoretically), Jon Snow is now not only the king of the north by decree, but also, the heir to the iron throne (prior to Robert Baratheon taking over KL.

How would this be possible though, wouldn't Jon still be a bastard (of Rhaegar) and therefore the heir of nothing?

[bogdevil]

How would this be possible though, wouldn't Jon still be a bastard (of Rhaegar) and therefore the heir of nothing?

most believers in the R+L=J theory believe that R+L eloped and were married. Targaryens were known to practice polygamy and Rhaegar was obsessed with fulfilling the prophecies. Alternately, Robb legitimized him according to the GNCT.

[Macho Hand of the King]

There was a very interesting thread a month ago or so that considered the possibility that Jon is actually dead. I don't think this is likely (there is too much foreshadowing that he will live and somehow warging into ghost will be involved, IMO). But it would actually be the most cliche busting thing since Ned and the Red Wedding if Jon actually stayed dead.

That is a good thread. I tend to lean towards the "Jon's not done" perspective, though. (I freely admit GRRM could totally hammer us with Jon's death, I just think it will be later on). I also had a thought rewatching some season 3 episodes "What if all of Ned Stark's children wind up dead as a result of him protecting the identity of Jon?" That would qualify as "bittersweet" for an ending. Bran likely remains in the cave, but his existence becomes something else and he's really "dead" as a son of Stark at that point.

[Queen Elsa]

most believers in the R+L=J theory believe that R+L eloped and were married. Targaryens were known to practice polygamy and Rhaegar was obsessed with fulfilling the prophecies. Alternately, Robb legitimized him according to the GNCT.

I read this claim a lot that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married. But who would marry them though? :dunno:

[intheswamp]

Stannis is becoming unimportant. Davos tells us that Stannis only brought 2000 men north with him, and that was before the battle at the Wall, the fight at Deepwood Motte, and the march towards Winterfell. And, his witch has found a new attraction in Jon. If the northerners choose to back someone else, Stannis is done. :(