Jon Snow can become King of Westeros without it being cheesy or cliche

[Panos Targaryen]

I've noticed in a lot of threads that the idea of Jon Snow sitting the Iron Throne (assuming R+L=J) is met with ridicule, as people consider that it fits too much with the trope of the "hero of humble and not ordinary origins that rises up to be the ultimate hero", and there's no way it's going to happen. I assume this is the majority's opinion, as almost all people (but not all) seem to dislike the idea of Jon being king because it's too cheesy.

However, Jon Snow can become King, and it can fit GRRM's gritty style perfectly.

For that, look at another fantasy book series: Joe Abercrombie's The First Law trilogy. In that harsh, bitter, cynical, ultra-realistic and gritty book series a character (who is a bastard) becomes king at the end of the series. However, it is really horrible for him, because he is trapped in an unhappy political marriage, manipulated by his corrupt and ambitious councilors, etc. He finds that becoming king has actually made his life worse.

The same could happen with Jon. Have him become king, but then be really unhappy and depressed with his life, hating the politics and lack of a clear purpose, wanting to return to the simplicity and "honor" of the Night's Watch, but not being able to, because he knows he must do his duty being king, even if he hates it.

So, there's a bittersweet, "non-fairytale" ending, with Jon being King. And with R+L=J and him probably being Azor Ahai, it could easily happen. What do you think?

[David Selig]

OK, name one remotely plausible non-cheesy way it could happen. I've kept asking this and nobody has ever given me a satisfying answer.

[Groat]

OK, name one remotely plausible way it could happen. I've kept asking this and nobody has ever given me a satisfying answer.

Really? Considering Jon is poised to become King in the North (assuming he lives), a marriage to Daenerys / Margery / whoever, while also allied to Sansa and Harry in the Vale, could have Jon becoming the most powerful lord in the realm, essentially King. The irony of course is he becomes king, and it has almost nothing to do with his Targaryen heritage.

[Panos Targaryen]

OK, name one remotely plausible way it could happen. I've kept asking this and nobody has ever given me a satisfying answer.

He is stabbed to death by the NW traitors and is brought back by Melisandre= relieved from his Night's Watch vows forever.

Westeros in chaos and all Iron Throne canditates are dead= he is forced to become King to restore order.

Why not?

[Addam of Hull]

I think you're right, but if I were you, I wouldn't both trying to convince anyone. People who think Jon is "cliched" and any ending where he ends up on any throne is "cheesy" made up their minds long ago. Nobody's going to change them, no matter how good your argument is.

[Broken Fox]

Jon Snow is my favorite character and honestly, I don't even want him to become King. Jon is on a different path.

[Muttering Bill]

He is stabbed to death by the NW traitors and is brought back by Melisandre= relieved from his Night's Watch vows forever.

I just don't see "but I was dead for a little while" as being sufficent cause to sever his vow.

He might come back only to be burned for a wight. :blink:

[Mladen]

OK, name one remotely plausible non-cheesy way it could happen. I've kept asking this and nobody has ever given me a satisfying answer.

Him marrying Daenerys, them riding a dragoins beating Others, and have 7 kids after that... :)

ETA:

He is stabbed to death by the NW traitors and is brought back by Melisandre= relieved from his Night's Watch vows forever.

Westeros in chaos and all Iron Throne canditates are dead= he is forced to become King to restore order.

Why not?

He won't be returned by Melisandre, for that would be too repetative. There are other ways Jon to be revived. and not all contenders for IT are dead. The scenario you propose is actually as cheesy as the one I suggested...

[Arya Wargface]

I think you're right, but if I were you, I wouldn't both trying to convince anyone. People who think Jon is "cliched" and any ending where he ends up on any throne is "cheesy" made up their minds long ago. Nobody's going to change them, no matter how good your argument is.

Right. While I agree that that would be a cheesy ending, if George chooses to go with it, I know he'll make it work. As to the HOW, well there needs to be the R + L reveal, then the showdown with Dany and/or Aegon for control of Westeros. I'm just spitballin, but what if Jon learns about it confidentially (don't know from whom, maybe Howland?) and decides (post-Others battle) that he would rather not have another political position and allows Dany/Aegon (Stannis??) to keep the throne without a fight. Like a said, just spitballin.

[Groat]

I just don't see "but I was dead for a little while" as being sufficent cause to sever his vow.

Yeah but getting stabbed to death by your subordinates is kind of being forced into an early retirement. The Nights Watch, assuming it is still an institution after the events of DWD, has given Jon the boot.

[David Selig]

He is stabbed to death by the NW traitors and is brought back by Melisandre= relieved from his Night's Watch vows forever.

Westeros in chaos and all Iron Throne canditates are dead= he is forced to become King to restore order.

Why not?

I am sure people in Westeros would be real eager to have a zombie on the throne, especially when another kind of zombies are invading intending to kill them all. That won't be implausible at all. :cool4:

Really? Considering Jon is poised to become King in the North (assuming he lives), a marriage to Daenerys / Margery / whoever, while also allied to Sansa and Harry in the Vale, could have Jon becoming the most powerful lord in the realm, essentially King. The irony of course is he becomes king, and it has almost nothing to do with his Targaryen heritage.

He is not poised to become King in the North. Manderly knows Rickon is alive, and so far none of the other nobles have shown any interest in making Jon King. GNC is just a far fetched theory for now.

But even if he becomes King in the North somehow, given how screwed up the North is by the wars and the incoming Others, I don't see a plausible road to the Iron Throne.

[Jon Stone]

I think you're right, but if I were you, I wouldn't both trying to convince anyone. People who think Jon is "cliched" and any ending where he ends up on any throne is "cheesy" made up their minds long ago. Nobody's going to change them, no matter how good your argument is.

Debate can be healthy and interesting, but I essentially agree.

One thing though, I think atleast George could change their mind if he goes down this path!

[Lehnaru]

OK, name one remotely plausible non-cheesy way it could happen. I've kept asking this and nobody has ever given me a satisfying answer.

Pretty much, and it's irritating when they try.

[Mladen]

Pretty much, and it's irritating when they try.

It wouldn't be irritating if they come up with some scenario that actually isn't cliche.

[Arya Wargface]

Pretty much, and it's irritating when they try.

I just think it's irritating when that's the only end that a person can see. I'm of the opinion that these are George's characters, regardless of how big the series has become, he can do with them whatever he wants. As long as he stays true to every character, I really don't care how the series ends. Once again, as to the whole Jon on the throne thing, if it happens, it happens. I agree with the OP that if he does get the Iron Throne, he most definitely will not like it. Either way, Jon (assuming R + L) has semi-legit claim to the throne if you go all cray-cray targ rules.

[KingInTheCave]

OK, name one remotely plausible non-cheesy way it could happen. I've kept asking this and nobody has ever given me a satisfying answer.

That depends on what you consider "cheesy". But I agree that he won't become king. Even if he's Rhaegar's son, not many people are going to believe it anyway, even if Holand Reed has proof. And let's not forget that Jon is currently dead. He's probably going to be brought back for a short period of time where he plays a role to defeat the others and then dies.

[mrunderhill]

What you said apart from being a bastard is pretty much the story of Robert Baratheon.

[Groat]

It wouldn't be irritating if they come up with some scenario that actually isn't cliche.

Personally, I don't believe Jon will be king on the IT of all 7 kingdoms at the end.

That being said, there are a ton of different ways Jon could become king that subverts the normal prinice in hiding troupe. If you want it in a truly Martin fashion, I could see Jon becoming king with an incestrious polygamous marriage to Dany, Sansa, and lets say Margery for good measure.

The point is, if Jon believes he has a duty or obligation to make a bid for the IT, he's probably going to make a bid for it. There are several ways that Jon could be put in this position that aren't cheesy, and there are several ways he could ascend to the throne that aren't cheesy as well. If you really want me to come up with some stuff I can, but that borderlines on fan fiction.

[Ribupr]

I definitely think it can be done. Will it? I don't know, but I would like it to.

I think that most people who don't think so are bias against the whole "chosen one" and "hidden king" stuff. While I am too, if it is done right, who cares. But if anyone can make it work, its GRRM.

[Dr. Pepper]

The same could happen with Jon. Have him become king, but then be really unhappy and depressed with his life, hating the politics and lack of a clear purpose, wanting to return to the simplicity and "honor" of the Night's Watch, but not being able to, because he knows he must do his duty being king, even if he hates it.

So, there's a bittersweet, "non-fairytale" ending, with Jon being King. And with R+L=J and him probably being Azor Ahai, it could easily happen. What do you think?

You forget how Jon goes about becoming King of Westeros in his own right. It's simply not very realistic in the story GRRM has created. It doesn't really matter theorizing that he'd be miserable and depressed as king on the iron throne (hell, he's already depressed as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch) without theorizing how he'd get there.

His parentage isn't going to be enough to get him there. Parentage hasn't really seemed to matter when it comes to the Iron Throne. For example, it's pretty well known that Cersei's children are not biological Baratheons but it hasn't kept people from ensuring they stay on the throne. Also, no one actively assisted Viserys or Dany in returning to the throne, even though they were ready for assistance. Marrying Dany isn't going to make him king in his own right, considering Dany is seeking the throne in her own right. He'd be king consort in that case.

In the reality of the world Martin has created, people usurp a throne because they have the bigger stick. Stannis, who has a fairly large stick with his red witch who makes shadowbabies to kill off heads of the opposition, hasn't been able to do it. Jon doesn't have an army disciplined or sizeable enough. Even if he gained the support of the North, northmen aren't interested in being tied to the throne. They seek independence.

So yes, I agree that if Jon became king, he'd be miserable and depressed just like he is being LC. It's a lonely job. We've also seen several leaders who are miserable and depressed at the job (Robert, Cersei, Dany, Theon, perhaps Stannis) so it's something we are familiar with. The problem is Jon getting to the throne and ruling in his own right. It becomes much less plausible when you consider what it actually takes to get there within the framework of the rules in this series.