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Rhaegarsjoy

Restoration Rights?

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Both the Starks and Rhaegar and his family were usurped. However Dany wants to takeback something she never had. And her wanting to get revenge on the Starks is now unwarrented. The ones who fought in RR are dead. She will never get satisfaction from the current Starks because the crimes committed against her family are not theirs to pay. What happened to Elia and her children is no ones fault but Tywins and his henchmen, all of them dead. Removing Aerys was the right thing to do. She needs to sit down and shut up for awhile and listen, with Jorah, Ser Barristan, Vic, Tyrion, hell anyone who was alive and knew and saw first hand Mad Aerys horrible acts, so that she can see that his removal was justified.

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I love both the Starks and Dany but why is it ok for the Starks to get revenge and rebuild their home and not Dany? They both had their families brutally murdered and I don't think anyone can blame Dany for her father's crimes. The Starks were declared traitors, their home taken and they're pretty much on the run or hiding just like Dany has been for her whole life. So do they both deserve to get their homes back? OR Is one entitled but not the other?

And please no she's insane and deserves to die or go wherever crazy ppl go because there are 6799 threads for that. TY

The Starks are popular on this board and the Targaryens are not. This is the gist of it.

Though to be fair in Dany's case the stories about her father are true, where as they were a fabrication about Ned. Still Robb and Catelyn committed treason. Many Lords have lost their lands for a lot less.

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The Starks were brutally betrayed at the Red Wedding. Similarly, The Targaryens were also betrayed at the sacking of KL. However the distinction between these two events is that the Targaryens started a war because they believed they were infallible (the whole "fire is our champion" thing stinks of this, as does demanding eddard/robert's execution) The Starks were taken out while they were trying to fight a war to free themselves from the Lannisters, which, in their cold views on duty and justice, is justifiable. I guess what I am getting at is that the Starks try to justify their actions, while the Targaryens believe all they need to do is shout "fire and blood". Because of this, I think that they sort of deserved what was coming to them. The sacking of KL was terrible, but the Targaryens also shouldn't have the right to rule after so many stupid decisions. However, I am actually going to agree with you. Dany deserves a home, but maybe not (at least in my mind) a queenship.

I think you're completely wrong, neither bran nor rickon sat on their fathers seat does that mean they shouldn't take back their home. And the Targ after the conquest didn't lord "fire and blood" over the rest of westeros. Aerys was 'mad' if the lords wanted to change him they should have supported rhaegar to replace him, they didnt do that because that's not how you deal with your king like a common criminal but all the Targaryens didn't deserve what was done to them anymore than the Starks did. If you look at this logically the reaction to what happened at the RW if cat was raped after they smashed Robb's head against the wall and dragged Arya from outside and stabbed her a dozen times would that have made them deserve it if Ned was Mad?

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Nope. Aerys, deserved to be removed. The rest of the Targs were just as innocent as the Starks, and did not deserve what happened to them.

Rheagar too? the man who whether blinded by love or prophecy? all of the inbreeding. It was a logical and just rebellion and overthrow of the family. Ned intended for them to go into exile, that much is clear and i agree. The Starks would be welcomed back and will be, it was a different set of circumstances that has befalled them than that of the Targs.

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Also maybe people would be more sympathetic to Danys cause if she didn't whine about her rights. Maybe if she said "I do not want the throne, but I must take it for it was my familiy throne by rights and they were usurped. So it is my DUTY to see that we have it back"

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I think all of Westeros waited too damn long to throw out the Targs. The Dragons that burned castles and all of the people inside to a crisp is why everyone excepted the abomination of the inbred foreigners. They died over 100 years ago.Yes, some were good but more often then not or "flip a coin" and get 50/50 nut jub etc.. It was quoted by another poster that I cannot find but it was this. "when you got dragons, you get people to go along with things that they might not ordinarily want to". When the rebellion came, they had every right in the world and every reason to go along with it. The problem was after they deiceded to keep it together under new "leadership" rather than disolve the kingdoms back into individual crowns and soverignties.

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Also maybe people would be more sympathetic to Danys cause if she didn't whine about her rights. Maybe if she said "I do not want the throne, but I must take it for it was my familiy throne by rights and they were usurped. So it is my DUTY to see that we have it back"

I think stannis already took that line.

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I think stannis already took that line.

Also. Westeros has kind of shown that even under the Targs, ruling queens were passed over to an extent. The Dance of Dragons II will prove it if it comes to pass. Aegon is a fake I believe but the people of Westeros will not and therefore he will be considered Rheagar and Ellia's son and if he was, would be the "rightful" restored king. Dany will not go for that and she will fight him. This will be because of her vision of a mummer's dragon in which she will know he is a "fake" After Dany, Stannis is rightful King but that is because Cersei and Jaime are only a strong rumor in Westeros but a known fact to us readers. This is maddening. Ugghhhh :bang:

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I think stannis already took that line.

Exactly what I was getting at. She needs to be more like Stannis if she wants folks to champion for her. Long live Stannis the Just.

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Also maybe people would be more sympathetic to Danys cause if she didn't whine about her rights. Maybe if she said "I do not want the throne, but I must take it for it was my familiy throne by rights and they were usurped. So it is my DUTY to see that we have it back"

This false modesty and "See, it's all because of duty, get it" attitude is really annoying to me. Dany not having it is one of the good things about her.

Exactly what I was getting at. She needs to be more like Stannis if she wants folks to champion for her. Long live Stannis the Just.

Wait, so you don't like whining about rights, but Stannis is your role model in this? The same Stannis who can't ever shut up how the Throne is his by rights and "why doesn't everyone sees it and support me" is his motto?

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This false modesty and "See, it's all because of duty, get it" attitude is really annoying to me. Dany not having it is one of the good things about her.

Wait, so you don't like whining about rights, but Stannis is your role model in this? The same Stannis who can't ever shut up how the Throne is his by rights and "why doesn't everyone sees it and support me" is his motto?

Why are you so surprised?

Every Dany thread needs a Stannis Champion. I am just doing my DUTY.

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Exactly what I was getting at. She needs to be more like Stannis if she wants folks to champion for her. Long live Stannis the Just.

Who championed stannis besides florent big ears? That's why he perfected the whining about the throne being his by rights to try and convince ppl who hate him and would rather follow the monster bastard Joffrey.

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Most of the Northerners want the Starks back, as they find the Boltons to be an arbitrary liege placed upon them (murdered thier declared king and most of thier men), and refuse to give him legitimacy.

Most of Westeros deposed Danny's family, and follow a Baratheon, of sorts, as they found the Targaryens to be an arbitrary liege placed upon them (dragons), and refused to give them legitimacy.

Seems simple enough to grasp.

Most people don't want Stannis on the throne, So he should've given up already and should really shut up about his "rightful" claim, right?

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Also maybe people would be more sympathetic to Danys cause if she didn't whine about her rights. Maybe if she said "I do not want the throne, but I must take it for it was my familiy throne by rights and they were usurped. So it is my DUTY to see that we have it back"

Nah, she's honest about wanting the throne. I prefer that to Stannis' I don't want the throne bullshit.

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The Starks were never the cause of their own downfall; long term or short term.

They have a big vendetta against those who wrongfully usurped their home and power base. Also they have men and women who actually want them back, it's not like Sansa or Rickon would come marching onto a land that doesn't want them.

Dany however doesn't have this. The Targaryens were the cause of their own downfall; Aerys - long term and Rhaegar - short term. So she can't claim that they were wrongfully usurped.

Everyone Dany holds a grudge against is dead:

Jon Arryn

Robert

Ned

Hoster Tully

Gregor

Tywin

Stannis (soon :crying: )

She'll be taking revenge out on ghosts, so she can't even have that!

Not to mention the burning fact that unlike the Starks, no one actually wants a Targaryen on the throne.

You can't compare these two because they're completely different

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There was a failure to maintain a duty to the Realm by the Targaryen family (Aerys and Rhaegar), turning them into tyrants.As a consequence, they loss support in the Realm.

The Starks didn't turn into to tyrants and still maintain considerable support among their bannermen.

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Who championed stannis besides florent big ears? That's why he perfected the whining about the throne being his by rights to try and convince ppl who hate him and would rather follow the monster bastard Joffrey.

I was talking about the readers being champions for characters.

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It was quoted by another poster that I cannot find but it was this. "when you got dragons, you get people to go along with things that they might not ordinarily want

I believe that quote is from GRRM himself.

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The Starks were never the cause of their own downfall; long term or short term.

Um, yeah they did. Ned's stupidity was one of the main reasons.

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Nah, she's honest about wanting the throne. I prefer that to Stannis' I don't want the throne bullshit.

That's one of the reasons I don't like him he can't admit that he wants to be king so he can revenge on all those that ever wronged him kinda reminds me of someone else.

I was talking about the readers being champions for characters.

Oh yeah I forgot about that, it must be the "I believe in stannis" that kept him alive for so long.

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