A Clash of Personalities: Activity vs. Passivity in Relationships

[Broken Fox]

I think judging Rhaegar and Lyanna soley off the events of the Rebellion would show that Rhaegar was the more influential one, considering she went along with, and died, for his entire plan. From what we do know, however, both were highly intelligent, charismatic and dominant personalities.

[The Fallen]

Yeah I have to say raygar was really a sub, I think hes almost as much a sub as jaime tbh, because of how silent, reserved, and pliable he was.

ETA: I think lyanna went willingly with him.

I don't think you can base it off that though. That's merely perception. Again, look at Ned and Robert. Ned was more reserved, but I believe dominant over Robert.

[ab aeterno]

Probably. Rhaegar may have liked being dommed. Perhaps this is where Jon gets it. Jon LOVES being dommed. (when it comes to the ladies anyway...Except Mel. Cuz he knows to sub for her would be bad news.)

Sansa dominated Sandor in a lot of ways. She seemed to consume his thoughts and even make him back down quite a bit with just a song. Damn girl. Shes gonna dom LF so hard.

Another good example: Tywin dominates Kevan in his relationship to an extraordinary extent. I believe the saying about Kevan is something along the lines of "It was said of Kevan that he had never had a thought that Tywin had not had first." Tywin in turn was, by all accounts, dominated by Joanna. If Aerys sat the throne, and Tywin ruled the kingdom, Joanna ruled Tywin. Perhaps the Lannister men have a streak of submissiveness running through them as well. Lancel is similarly dominated my Cersei, as an additional example.

[Citadel_acolyte]

I think judging Rhaegar and Lyanna soley off the events of the Rebellion would show that Rhaegar was the more influential one, considering she went along with, and died, for his entire plan. From what we do know, however, both were highly intelligent, charismatic and dominant personalities.

What you've just described could also be labelled impulsive and foolhardy. Going along with a poorly hatched plan because it excites the pants off you doesn't necessarily mean submissive.

[Broken Fox]

What you've just described could also be labelled impulsive and foolhardy. Going along with a poorly hatched plan because it excites the pants off you doesn't necessarily mean submissive.

I didn't say Lyanna was submissive. I don't think she was at all. In fact, the terms dominant and submissive have been misused a lot in this thread.

[Father of Hosts]

This is a she-wolf we're talking about. Arya is barely 12 when we last saw her, and when she dominated all those dudes like Gendry and Hot Pie and Jaqen H'ghar. Its not too much of a stretch to imagine her auntie Lyanna being similar. She dominated Benjen as kids when Bran sees them in the weirwoods. Maybe Rhaegar liked that about Lyanna. ;)

Truth. I stand corrected.

This thread has so much potential for double entendres and winking faces, it's ridiculous.

[ab aeterno]

I think judging Rhaegar and Lyanna soley off the events of the Rebellion would show that Rhaegar was the more influential one, considering she went along with, and died, for his entire plan. From what we do know, however, both were highly intelligent, charismatic and dominant personalities.

That's assuming it was his plan in the end. If we consider what we are told about Rhaegar's youth, he had no interest in swordmanship and fighting but in books, but when he seemingly read about the prophesy he dedicated himself to martial training and apparently to the prophesy's fulfillment. Rhaegar seems to have been dominated by a book, so I think he would certainly be dominated by Lyanna.

[Father of Hosts]

I didn't say Lyanna was submissive. I don't think she was at all. In fact, the terms dominant and submissive have been misused a lot in this thread.

I don't think we are using classical interpretations of dominant and submissive. More varying degrees of each.

[Broken Fox]

That's assuming it was his plan in the end. If we consider what we are told about Rhaegar's youth, he had no interest in swordmanship and fighting but in books, but when he seemingly read about the prophesy he dedicated himself to martial training and apparently to the prophesy's fulfillment. Rhaegar seems to have been dominated by a book, so I think he would certainly be dominated by Lyanna.

To say you're reaching would be an understatement.

[ab aeterno]

To say you're reaching would be an understatement.

I would say that Rhaegar's willingness to follow what he perceives as a set destiny and future rather than plotting his own course through life says a lot about his personality, personally.

[E-Ro]

I don't think you can base it off that though. That's merely perception. Again, look at Ned and Robert. Ned was more reserved, but I believe dominant over Robert.

True story about ned and robert, but I think the key word wrt raygar is pliable. It reads to me like, he was content with doing what his partner wanted, even if he felt it wrong to him. That may also have been what attracted him to lyanna.

raygar= total sub

[Broken Fox]

I would say that Rhaegar's willingness to follow what he perceives as a set destiny and future rather than plotting his own course through life says a lot about his personality, personally.

We don't really know what drove Rhaegar. We know he read a prophecy in some book, but that's it. There are other sides to the story that are still unknown to us.

[The Wolves]

I think Lyanna was the dominant one with Rhaegar.

People like Ned, Jon, and Rhaegar are quiet and is Okay with others making decisions unless they didn't agree with them or their positions have them making a decision and its the end of the discussion. They are not submissive cause when it really matters they speak up and keep to their opinions/decisions

[Citadel_acolyte]

What about Jon and Ygritte? IMO there was a push-pull of submission happening there. She wanted him to completely submit to her world view and for all of her talk about "real men" among the free people stealing their women away, I see her as a strongly dominant personality. He showed a definite desire to submit to her, but ultimately his sense of duty prevented him from going there.

(Sorry if this has already been raised. I've only read the last couple of pages of the thread)

[ab aeterno]

We don't really know what drove Rhaegar. We know he read a prophecy in some book, but that's it. There are other sides to the story that are still unknown to us.

There are, it isn't a complete picture, but it seems to be strongly hinted by his actions, the visions from the House of the Undying, his interest in the Prince that was Promised prophesy, and Aemon's confirmation that the Prince was thought to be Rhaegar, or of his line, that Rhaegar was following that prophesy and trying to bring it to fruition. I think the most common understanding of Rhaegar disappearing with Lyanna is that it was in pursuit of this prophesy as well. We don't really have any examples of Rhaegar being particularly assertive, either, as far as I can recall.

[The Wolves]

What about Jon and Ygritte? IMO there was a push-pull of submission happening there. She wanted him to completely submit to her world view and for all of her talk about "real men" among the free people stealing their women away, I see her as a strongly dominant personality. He showed a definite desire to submit to her, but ultimately his sense of duty prevented him from going there.

(Sorry if this has already been raised. I've only read the last couple of pages of the thread)

I always hated Ygritte because of her domineering attitude about Jon. Jon did submit to her on a lot of occasions but I think when it really mattered Jon didn't submit at all

[Stubby]

[MOD]

A post that was in contravention of the rules was deleted.

It was also necessary to delete 6 other posts that requoted the offending post.

Again, please use the report function (as one boarder did) and do not requote the offending post.

Thanks

[/MOD]

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

In this context, I think the dominant one is more in control and the submissive more willing to go along. It doesn't make sense to think of it along the lines of a modern BDSM relationship where each person is consciously choosing to be either submissive or dominate.

[Citadel_acolyte]

I didn't say Lyanna was submissive. I don't think she was at all. In fact, the terms dominant and submissive have been misused a lot in this thread.

We're on the same page; I'm just raising the point that it is possible to rush into bad decisions for reasons other than being lead or coerced or star-struck or whatever.

[Citadel_acolyte]

I always hated Ygritte because of her domineering attitude about Jon. Jon did submit to her on a lot of occasions but I think when it really mattered Jon didn't submit at all

I really liked Ygritte for that exact reason. She was a bit of a stereotypical red-head, but then so is Mel.