The Rightful Heir to the Iron Throne

[Lord of Beyond the Wall]

Because Ned believed Stannis was the rightful heir. Just as most people believe Joffrey is, or some who believe it's actually Dany. Power resides where men believe it resides - it's as simple as that. And if everyone believes power resides within same person, than that person truly is rightful king/queen.

Where can i find the last Gallup or Rasmussen poll of Westoros ?....Nobody know what people in Westeros think about their rulers.

[Maegor the Cuddly]

Where can i find the last Gallup or Rasmussen poll of Westoros ?....Nobody know what people in Westeros think about their rulers.

I think Jorah had it the best when he spoke of what the Smallfolk focus on. Food, rain, crops, their children, summer and winter.

I don't think they give a rat's arse about who is king. You see Smallfolk in King's Landing cheering for freaking Robb even though he doesn't want the Iron Throne after all. Why? Because they know that Joffrey's king, and they are not getting food, and that it's the king's job to be getting food.

[Napyura]

Aerys II's line was removed from having right to the throne, Rhaella Targeryens line is now primary throne power if not overthrown. Blackfyre's have no right to the throne due to rebellion.

[mrunderhill]

I think Jorah had it the best when he spoke of what the Smallfolk focus on. Food, rain, crops, their children, summer and winter.

I don't think they give a rat's arse about who is king. You see Smallfolk in King's Landing cheering for freaking Robb even though he doesn't want the Iron Throne after all. Why? Because they know that Joffrey's king, and they are not getting food, and that it's the king's job to be getting food.

I think Jorah is an arrogant Lord, who has no clue what the smallfolk want. At the end of the day the smallfolk, back then are no different than you or are I today. Primarily we are concerned with our own needs, but it does not mean we don't care who runs the country. The smallfolk as a whole seem to support the Targaryens, though they loved Robert and Renly. Most would probably welcome the Targaryens back.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

I think Jorah is an arrogant Lord, who has no clue what the smallfolk want. At the end of the day the smallfolk, back then are no different than you or are I today. Primarily we are concerned with our own needs, but it does not mean we don't care who runs the country. The smallfolk as a whole seem to support the Targaryens, though they loved Robert and Renly. Most would probably welcome the Targaryens back.

Can I get a quote please?

[Maegor the Cuddly]

I think Jorah is an arrogant Lord, who has no clue what the smallfolk want. At the end of the day the smallfolk, back then are no different than you or are I today. Primarily we are concerned with our own needs, but it does not mean we don't care who runs the country. The smallfolk as a whole seem to support the Targaryens, though they loved Robert and Renly. Most would probably welcome the Targaryens back.

I think that the overall thing about it is, if things are going awesome, then the smallfolk love their king. If things go badly, even if it is beyond the king's control, they hate him. Things went pretty damn well with the long summers of Targaryen rule, so they love them. But Robert ruled in a pretty long summer too, so they loved him. Etc. etc. etc.

[mrunderhill]

Can I get a quote please?

All through the books. Aerys was actually a popular king with the smallfolk. Viserys seems to be right. People are not willing to risk their lives to get the Targaryens back, but they would be happy if they returned.

These are just a few quotes I remember for where I am in the books at the moment. There are many others.

"It's a sin and a shame," an old man hissed. "When the old king was still alive, he'd not have stood for this." "King Robert?" Arya asked, forgetting herself. "King Aerys, gods grace him," the old man said, too loudly.

Brienne is not exactly one of the smallfolks, but she sums up a lot of there opinions.

"He's not. Robert was never the rightful king either, even Renly said as much. Jaime Lannister murdered the rightful king, after Robert killed his lawful heir on the Trident. Where were the gods then? The gods don't care about men, no more than kings care about peasants."

I think that the overall thing about it is, if things are going awesome, then the smallfolk love their king. If things go badly, even if it is beyond the king's control, they hate him. Things went pretty damn well with the long summers of Targaryen rule, so they love them. But Robert ruled in a pretty long summer too, so they loved him. Etc. etc. etc.

Not really, because these things are still in the back of their minds. Nobody is going to love a usurper no matter how good things are. Tywin made things great for those in the Westerlands, but he was never loved. Stannis is another competent ruler, but people don't love him.

[Dany Girl]

Nobody has a strong "right" to the throne IMO, whomever wins in the end will do so by force. Rights of conquest will take over any blood rights. Dany or Aegon have the highest probability of winning. I lean twords Dany because of her dragons. She'll conquer just like her ancestors did.

[Joe Pine]

I think Jorah is an arrogant Lord, who has no clue what the smallfolk want. At the end of the day the smallfolk, back then are no different than you or are I today. Primarily we are concerned with our own needs, but it does not mean we don't care who runs the country. The smallfolk as a whole seem to support the Targaryens, though they loved Robert and Renly. Most would probably welcome the Targaryens back.

I disagree. Jorah is a flawed person, engaging in slavery, his obsession with pleasing his wife, his exile, spying on Dany etc etc. But again and again his actions in warding Dany in the earlier books show him not as black as he could be painted.

He's still the son of the old bear, Jeor, they're of the north and despite Jorah's fall from grace, his values came from the old bear. His cousin, Alysane in her dialogue with Asha doesn't give the reader any feeling that they are grand nobles, possibly as islanders more grounded than Lords on southron Westeros.

Jorah will 'have the common touch' but his perspective is twisted after losing his wife and he has a way to go in his arc to be redeemed for what he has done.

Is he fit to counsel Dany? probably not in all honesty, but he's far better than a load of those guiding Tommen.

[Lord Ravenstark]

The Children of the Forest.

[Lord of Beyond the Wall]

Seems to me that the people of the Iron Island have the best system and is more democratic.

[mrunderhill]

Seems to me that the people of the Iron Island have the best system and is more democratic.

Some would say democratic is not always the best system. The most popular man is not always the best. The Iron Islands just elected Euron and arguably the worst leader of the last century; Hiter was elected democratically.

[boojam]

The Children of the Forest.

Or the Great Other.

[boojam]

Seems to me that the people of the Iron Island have the best system and is more democratic.

I would say the Iron Bank of Braavos or whoever can pay off the debt Westeros owes them.

"Those with the Gold make the Rules."

[otherbeef]

about Right of Conquest, when Ned talks to Robert about Jaime sitting on the throne when he entered the room, Ned says that Jaime "had no right to that throne." but if right on conquest is a thing, wouldn't he? The Lannisters were the ones to take King's Landing and Jaime himself killed the old king, isn't that basically the definition of right of conquest?

[OrcusOfUndeath]

Stannis has the throne by right. Targs no longer have the claim since they lost it the same way they won it - Conquest. If they retake it by conquest then sure, but anyone can do that with an army.

Hell Tormund could sit on the Iron Throne if he waits this out when everyone is dead, and then proceeds to cut down the few remaining opponent with his member.

So, no one has the constant RIGHT to the throne. Only the one who takes it has the right to it. Hell, Starks were Kings in the North for 10000 years before Aegon, in times when Valyrians were somewhere jumping with sheep on some hills. The Targs are insignificant on that time scale.

So, I am of opinion that Targaryens have no claim to anything until they retake it.

about Right of Conquest, when Ned talks to Robert about Jaime sitting on the throne when he entered the room, Ned says that Jaime "had no right to that throne." but if right on conquest is a thing, wouldn't he? The Lannisters were the ones to take King's Landing and Jaime himself killed the old king, isn't that basically the definition of right of conquest?

Well, actually no. Jaime had no right of conquest. The Lannisters took Kings Landing AFTER the conquest of the land by Baratheons, Starks and Arryns. They took the capital, not the land. They sacked a city through trickery, they have not won the entire war.

[Morienthar]

Some would say democratic is not always the best system. The most popular man is not always the best. The Iron Islands just elected Euron and arguably the worst leader of the last century; Hiter was elected democratically.

A bad king is still better than War.

[drstrangelove]

There are many claimants to the Iron Throne, but there are only four main characters descended from the Aegon the Conqueror who have a legitimate claim to the Iron Throne. Their order of precedence depends on two contingencies: Is Aegon a Blackfyre? Is Jon the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna?

If Aegon is really Aegon and Jon is legitimate then:

1. Aegon

2. Jon

3. Dany

4. Stannis

If Aegon is a Blackfyre and Jon is legitimate then:

1. Jon

2. Dany

3. Stannis

4. Aegon

If Aegon’s a Blackfyre and Jon is illegitimate then:

1. Dany

2. Stannis

3. Aegon

4. Jon

If Aegon is Aegon and Jon is illegitimate then:

1. Aegon

2. Dany

3. Stannis

4. Jon

You’ll notice that Aegon, Jon, or Dany could all be the rightful heir under the right conditions. Stannis, however, never is. This is very important because Stannis is the one claimant who would willingly give up his claim if confronted with a better one. He has explicitly said that he doesn’t want the IT, but is fighting for it because he’s the rightful king, which he is as far as he knows. (I’m not including Jon as a ‘claimant’ because he hasn’t put forward any claim to the IT.)

I don’t see Stannis kneeling to anyone with a questionable claim, and even if Jon and Aegon are Rhaegar’s legitimate kids, their claims don’t have a lot of evidence behind them. I see Stannis only kneeling to Dany, the one person whose claim is better in every scenario.

I predict Stannis will lead the unified northern forces, while Dany leads the unified Southron forces, and they will join together when Stannis bends the knee to Dany.

Thoughts?

Once the targs were dethroned they no longer were heirs. They would have to win it by conquest. Stannis by birthright is the rightful heir to King Robert.

[The Summer Islander]

1 Stannis

2 Shireen

Dany, Aegon, and even Jon are non factors until they can overthrow Stannis.

[otherbeef]

1 Stannis

2 Shireen

Dany, Aegon, and even Jon are non factors until they can overthrow Stannis.

how can they overthrow Stannis when he doesn't even have the throne?