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Werthead

GOODKIND III

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Richard is a self moving soul. He clearly isn't restrained by "what came before" into feeling guilty about crippling a small child.

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Yet your arms are bound and you have a single motion to get the job done. I would say aiming for the side or top of the head would have been a better idea for a better chance of a kill. But physical options are limited.

Ho, establishing context is good. Well, then I imagine that his solution is the best practical one to try to kill the girl off.

So then, I would ask the reason why killing Violet was desirable in his situation, but it seems that smashing the face of your captor's little princess actually helps you escape for some reason.

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14th Dragon are you a closet Goodkind fan? :P

First off. At 8 personality disorders are hard to diagnose. How much is nature how much is nurture. If Violet had been taken out of power and given to good people to be raised by who she have become a snarky but other wise good person? How much of her cruelty was the fact that she had been taught it by her mother?

Now Richard after meeting the princess (what once) decides she is evil and so must be destroyed, because they refuse to bow to him, and an 8 year old taughts him. (Never mind that the Mord Sith have just tortured him, they are hot women in red leather, they will get forgiveness.) More over he is not haunted by the fact that he did something awful to a child, as you would except the "hero" to be.

The whole situation is poorly set up and poorly executed. I have a bit of the black humorist in me so I find it funny. Especially because Richard is supposed to be the most bad ass morally upstanding hero, who kicks in the face of children. :P Nothing screams bad ass quite like beating up children. :lmao:

I hunger for the next quote of the day... (And I may even have to reread these books the quotes just make them seem so funny! Perhaps if I approach it from the stand point of humor it will be easier to read...)

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So then, I would ask the reason why killing Violet was desirable in his situation, but it seems that smashing the face of your captor's little princess actually helps you escape for some reason.

In context, actually it doesn't really help, it is the thingy that helps, but that is beside the point.

Why is killing her the solution at hand, given that she is threatening someone (some important to you) with multiple rape, torture and finally death. Has shown the capabilty of doing such acts and has no limitations on her behavior and is in fact encouraged by authroity figures to do so. (Which rises a bit above the level of annoyance in my book as others have claimed she was doing)

Now Brys suggested that ignoring the problem is the first step, well someone else already took care of that step. Second was to try talking an coaxing them into moderating thier pyscotic behavior, well that was handled a few chapters before, which is what is bringing on the leathal and sadistic rage the child is now venting. Now since the final step of trying to incarcerate the child is impossible, any action must be achieved with a single move and must be of suffecient strength to stop any further acts. This reduces options down quite a bit. One can make the case that a kill shot is the most effective option.

14th Dragon are you a closet Goodkind fan? :P

Nope, just a contrian at heart. I figure if only one view point is being expressed for a certian situation, I should at least try to present the opposing view. It helps hone my debating skills.

Besides I ripped Sansa continually in book threads for her failure to act when she had the oppurtunity to eliminate Joffery. I figured it

would be hippocritcal of me to not apply the same logic to this situation.

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Nope, just a contrian at heart. I figure if only one view point is being expressed for a certian situation, I should at least try to present the opposing view. It helps hone my debating skills.

Besides I ripped Sansa continually in book threads for her failure to act when she had the oppurtunity to eliminate Joffery. I figured it

would be hippocritcal of me to not apply the same logic to this situation.

Well I do think there is a big difference between a 13 year old, and an 8 year old. One is a child, one a young adult. Richard kicking in Violet's teeth and cutting out her tongue is more analogous of Jaime throwing Bran out of the tower. Except for Richard could never aspire to be as interesting as Jaime.

Sansa also being younger then Joff would further separate these instances if they had happened. Not to mention that Sansa is not exactly the moral back bone of the books.

So you could feel not hypocritical if you wanted to rag on both Sansa not pushing Joff when she had the chance; and Goodkind's child maiming. ( :D )

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So, if I follow the logic, going darkstar on this little girl removes a threat upon Richard's beloved, and does not make the mutilated princess, nor her guards, nor her family, nor her allies even more hell bent on eviscerating his girl in front of him.

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It seems that everybody doesn't find the scene under discussion so revolting after all. The is from a discussion about making TG's books into movies.

Confessor Avi

12-18-2005, 01:10 PM

COME ON!!!!!! I'd sit through any number of hours of film to see SoT come to life!!!! Don't you wanna see Violet get her tongue cut off after disliking her an entire book? Just put an intermission in to drive up even more suspense, get a little portable toilet, some root beer,and food and your good to go.

:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

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So you could feel not hypocritical if you wanted to rag on both Sansa not pushing Joff when she had the chance; and Goodkind's child maiming. ( :D )

Well, I am not making commentary on the Authors. Martin did not have Sansa act because it was not in her charecter to do so. Goodkind had Richard act since that was what he wrote his charecter to do. Therefore I do not ascribe the actions directly to the author. But that is beside the point.

You point that taken out of the enviroment that they were in that either Violet or Joffery might have turned out different. If given the option removing them to somewhere else likely would have been a good option. However in both cases that option is really not available. When the inmates are running the asylum you can't exactly turn for help. In both cases you are stuck with either or options, you must decide then which is the proper course. True Sansa had the extra burden of being sure of death if she acted, where Richard already knew he was to valuable to just kill outright. But in both situations the case in point is wether or not to allow a malevolent individule to continue to rule, or take action?

(A much more fun little question is why Goodkind failed to have his other moral operator [Kalahan] take the intiative (years before if possible), seeing the type of child Violet was becoming and the type of ruler the queen was, (see the state of the prisoners) why did she not excercise her powers to remove the queen from power imediatly and then remove violet to somewhere else for training before assuming the throne? Given that it was within her rights to do so? Which can be made the case that Goodkind clearly stating that his female moral charecter lacks the conviction (at least before meeting the "hero") to make the hard choices.)

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Betty the goat has received a lot of press in these threads, so I thought she should be the focus of todays Terry Goodkind Quote of the Day.

(the passage quoted has been edited for space cuz it goes on and on.)

Jennsen gestured vaguely back at the men and the town behind her. "Since I've been with them, they have come to see that I'm not a witch, and Betty is not a spirit guide - although for a time there I was afraid they might be right about Betty."

Richard peered down at the goat. Betty cocked her head. "I guess none of us but Betty knew the truth of what Nicholas was up to." At the sound of her name, Betty's ears pricked forward and her tail went into a fit of expectant wagging.

<<long drawn out bunch of crap removed>>

After Richard picked up his pack and slipped his arms through the straps, Owen gripped Richard's hand. "Thank you, Lord Rahl, for showing me that my life is worth living."

Marilee stepped forward and hugged him. "Thank you for teaching Owen to be worthy of me."

Richard laughed. Owen laughed. Cara gave Marilee an approving clap on the back. And then all the men laughed.

Betty pushed in and with a flurry of tail wagging got the point across that she didn't want to be left out.

Richard knelt down and scratched Betty's ears. "And you, my friend, from now on I don't want you letting any Slides using you to spy on people."

Betty pushed her head against his chest as he scratched her ears, and bleated as if to say she was sorry.

Terry Goodkind ~ Naked Empire

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The cheesy factor goes through the roof!

" Richard laughed. Owen laughed. And then all the men laughed."

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The cheesy factor goes through the roof!

" Richard laughed. Owen laughed. And then all the men laughed."

All that's missing is "Three cheers for Richard! Hip hip, Hooray!"

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Betty snorted as if to say that dialogue from a goat would be utterly ridiculous, but ascribing human emotions to its actions in this way is reasonable and great writing.

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Goats are such noble creatures. How can you doubt the genuinity of my hero Betty's emotions?

I :love: you Betty!

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In all fairness about the Violet passage, in the context of the book, she truly had it coming. She was not just a petulent child. She was an evil, evil person who was responsible for the death of countless innocents, and the torture of many more. Sure, the scene was gratuitous, but gratuitous defines Goodkind's writing better than any other adjective.

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Richard laughed. Owen laughed. Cara gave Marilee an approving clap on the back. And then all the men laughed.

The last time I saw that quoted I thought they were making it up!

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Bad as the Chicken was, as kicking a child's face off was and as the Goat was, just these three sentences alone mark the books out as outright trash for me.

Owen gripped Richard's hand. "Thank you, Lord Rahl, for showing me that my life is worth living."

Marilee stepped forward and hugged him. "Thank you for teaching Owen to be worthy of me."

What a load of gumph.

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Eurytus,

All the later books have similar lines, as Richard travels the world, like littlest hobo or Cain from Kung-fu, helping people and making them see the light.

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The mystar virus is spreading: he has now reached Three Seas Forum.

Where he claims that Sword of Truth has sold 60 million copies. :lmao: Pure. Bullshit. It's sold distressingly well (more than ASoIF, MBF or PoN, certainly), but it hasn't sold as well as Jordan, Herbert, Adams or Feist, let alone Mystar's utterly ludicrous and unsubstantiated claim that the series has sold more than Terry Pratchett.

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Confessor Avi

12-18-2005, 01:10 PM

COME ON!!!!!! I'd sit through any number of hours of film to see SoT come to life!!!! Don't you wanna see Violet get her tongue cut off after disliking her an entire book? Just put an intermission in to drive up even more suspense, get a little portable toilet, some root beer,and food and your good to go.

This must be sarcasm, the part about the portable toilet should show the guy isn't serious, shouldn't it? I mean, it's at the level of Goodkind is our god.

About the goat, note that it cocked its head in the same fashion the evil chicken did. Clearly someone has to be enlightened with the concept of a goat that is not a goat, then smash its effing teeth in.

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Sadly, at no point does Betty utter an evil cackle. Just bleating bleating bleating.

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