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Werthead

GOODKIND III

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Yep, the virus is spreading indeed. :o

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Ahhhh so here we have it... you don't like the fact that Goodkind didn't consult you when writing this book, and as such feel compelled to point out how the books should have been written. Or more to the truth, to put it simply the fact IS that you missed the allegory in that specific part of the book, the metaphor that true evil left uncheck and unbridled can reign, even in that of a child.... Or have you missed the fact that children have been used to do evil and kill people in war...They are led to believe they are in the right to be cruel...(yeh you missed that...why am I not surprised).

yeah you guys crack us up. GioG never ceases to give us a great chuckle. Which also proves that you people have no life....lol...

So...none of us are arguing that children cannot be evil in their various ways. None of us were complaining of a child being cruel and acting the way that she had been trained to do. The concern, underneath the sarcasm, is that the action shown was an adult man (bound, yes, but still with a leg free) kicked the child in the jaw with enough force to eventually kill that child.

What are the implications behind that? You state something about evil being left unchecked/unbridled can reign, but what others are seeing is a justification for child abuse. A justification for letting anger and possibly even hatred to rise (and yes, I know the part before says there's a pity for what the girl has become, but I'm referring to how many will interpret what follows) and to be used in violent means.

Not everyone believes that physical/mental violence will 'slay' evil. A great many believe that using tools of violence serves to harm that wielder as much, if not moreso, than the targets of that violence. It may not be a belief that you or Goodkind subscribe to, it might be a belief that in certain situations will lead to a blind eye toward evil, but it is a difference in belief that has to be acknowledged. When the point being made is that of violence (justified or not, it was a violent act) toward a child might be justified in certain situations, that is going to make a good many people sick and disgusted. Yes, I know they can stop reading it (just like I stopped reading Goodkind's work as I grew more and more disgusted with his Objectivist leanings, as those run counter to my personal, Catholic-based beliefs on social justice, among other things), but it is understandable that the reaction would be as it would be. And point or no point regarding the use of children in malicious ways, I do find the scene to be a bit unnecessary in that I have dealt for years with abused children and how they have been trained to do acts considered 'evil' (including rape, incest, assault, etc.) by adults. I'm not blind to that reality - in fact, I would say I'm more aware of it than a great many of those reading this response. But does the end of justifying retaliation against evil justify the means of having an adult man shatter (and eventually cause her death) the jaw of an 8 year-old child?

And in other developments, I replied back to your comments toward me over at the Three-Seas forum. I don't feel like chasing convos across a great many sites, so it is what it was.

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Ahhhh so here we have it... you don't like the fact that Goodkind didn't consult you when writing this book, and as such feel compelled to point out how the books should have been written. Or more to the truth, to put it simply the fact IS that you missed the allegory in that specific part of the book, the metaphor that true evil left uncheck and unbridled can reign, even in that of a child.... Or have you missed the fact that children have been used to do evil and kill people in war...They are led to believe they are in the right to be cruel...(yeh you missed that...why am I not surprised).

Well there we have it. Deal with "cruel" children by kicking their heads in.

It's the heroic thing to do. Your 8 year old kid being bullied by another at school? No problem. Just get yourself down to the schoolyard and kick his goddamn head in. Shatter his teeth. Make him choke on his own blood. That'll learn him. And no-one will blame you for it. Hell your actions are undeniably noble. After all, "evil" can't be allowed to grow unchecked.

I can only hope that neither you nor the arse cancer that is Goodkind ever have or interact with kids in any way whatsoever.

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You guys have reminded me of a great part in (I think) the last Sword of Truth book - yes, I've kept reading after mildly enjoying the first two and being fascinated by the ongoing trainwreck.

Anyway, this evil chick who has turned good is getting escorted into enemy territory so that she can set a trap or attack them or something, but the trouble is, she used to be one of their evil rulers, so they're sure to recognise her, right? Well, she gets around this by approaching them topless so that the escorts are all too busy staring at her boobs to recognise her face - throughout the whole journey. I'm honestly not making this up.

Someone mentioned Ben Stiller in the great TV series Extras; this actually reminds me of Patrick Stewart in that other episode - "and the prisoners are all women, and they've been there so long that their clothes have all rotted away so I can see everything, and two of them are kissing, and one is bending over..."

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Ahhhh so here we have it... you don't like the fact that Goodkind didn't consult you when writing this book, and as such feel compelled to point out how the books should have been written. Or more to the truth, to put it simply the fact IS that you missed the allegory in that specific part of the book, the metaphor that true evil left uncheck and unbridled can reign, even in that of a child.... Or have you missed the fact that children have been used to do evil and kill people in war...They are led to believe they are in the right to be cruel...(yeh you missed that...why am I not surprised).

Well, if that is the case, my entire argument framework just collapsed. :rofl:

Ok, someone got another point they want to debate?

Someone want to clue me in ont the FFLA GioG?

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Hah, he hath appeared. *chuckles* Welcome to the Den of the Lion... or of the Direwolf., whatever.

Ahhhh so here we have it... you don't like the fact that Goodkind didn't consult you when writing this book, and as such feel compelled to point out how the books should have been written. Or more to the truth, to put it simply the fact IS that you missed the allegory in that specific part of the book, the metaphor that true evil left uncheck and unbridled can reign, even in that of a child.... Or have you missed the fact that children have been used to do evil and kill people in war...They are led to believe they are in the right to be cruel...(yeh you missed that...why am I not surprised).

Ah, yes, Standard Answer: #1: "YOU JUST MISSED TEH POINT!!!!111"

Uhm, no. Not everybody criticising Goodkind is stupid. I dont know if you can imagine that, but there ARE people out there who have valid points of crictiscism against Goodkinds, and who just dont like his work even if they understand it.

The particular points of crciticism in question here are:

1) Its a bad allegory. Its true, too often evil is unchecked, even in children. Nonetheless, to use particularily an eight year old child here to represent evil, and to use beating an eight year old child to represent beating evil is... IMO a bad choice of allegory, at the very least. So much for as pect of concept.

2) Furthermore, there is also a philosophical problem. You do not defeat evil by merely striking it down. It is one way, but if you narrow it down to that, you have ot at all understood the nature of evil. As Nietsche has said: If you gaze into the abyss too long, the abyss gazes into you. If you behave like a monster against "evil", you yourself become evil. After all, "evil" is a quality that must be measured by objective definitions, and one's behaviour and actions are surely part of that.

3) Oh, and last but not least: Come on, the girl stongue as "red flag", that "thing in him", and the awful formulations? Thats just bad writing!

So, in three aspects, concept, philosophy and writing that text simply fails.

yeah you guys crack us up. GioG never ceases to give us a great chuckle. Which also proves that you people have no life....lol...

Yeah, because writing a witty or satirical comment on a site maybe once a week surely means you have no life. Whereas hunting down each and every anti-goodkind sentiment on every fantasy forum one comes across, and writing long-winded answers (that despite their length still manage to not at all factor in previous replies) - yeah, that surely means you have so much more of a life.

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Missing the point has never been that fun. I'm eagerly awaiting the next quote of the day.

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Mystar must be joking.

A very elaborate spoof, ser. I applaud you!

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Missing the point has never been that fun. I'm eagerly awaiting the next quote of the day.

It'll be a few minutes yet. You wouldn't expect me to get started without at least finishing one cup of coffee would you? Besides, todays qotd will require extra editing, lots of pointless crap to be removed from the glorious central point of this fabulous chapter. :sick:

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I am way too hung over to write anything resembling logic or coherence. Just wanted to put it up for the peeps. Like I said, it took us a good goddamned long while, but we actually got a serious discussion going. Ah, it adds variety to merely bitching about KellhusKellhusKellhus!

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What's a khellus?

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You guys have reminded me of a great part in (I think) the last Sword of Truth book - yes, I've kept reading after mildly enjoying the first two and being fascinated by the ongoing trainwreck.

Anyway, this evil chick who has turned good is getting escorted into enemy territory so that she can set a trap or attack them or something, but the trouble is, she used to be one of their evil rulers, so they're sure to recognise her, right? Well, she gets around this by approaching them topless so that the escorts are all too busy staring at her boobs to recognise her face - throughout the whole journey. I'm honestly not making this up.

Someone mentioned Ben Stiller in the great TV series Extras; this actually reminds me of Patrick Stewart in that other episode - "and the prisoners are all women, and they've been there so long that their clothes have all rotted away so I can see everything, and two of them are kissing, and one is bending over..."

:lol:I've seen everything, I've seen it all

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What's a khellus?

Kellhus. Character from Prince of Nothing. He excites certain members of the board to wild ravings of love, hate, and Mary Sue-isms.

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Kellhus. Character from Prince of Nothing. He excites certain members of the board to wild ravings of love, hate, and Mary Sue-isms.

... which is reason enough for me to love him :kiss:

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Good morning and welcome to the Terry Goodkind Quote of the Day. I’d like to thank 14th Dragon once again for inspiring me to drag this segment out of my repressed memories, and share it with the rest of you. Enjoy. Once again this is edited for space (probably not nearly enough) and sanity (mine).

Kahlan stepped closer, put an arm around his waist to steady him. “A wolf?†The odd tone of suspicion in her voice made him look to her narrowed eyes. “Are you sure?â€

Richard nodded. “I was sitting here, and then all of a sudden I knew it was watching me. It came closer, and I saw its yellow eyes. Then it leapt at me. I thought it was attacking. It knocked me flat, right over the log. I never even had time to draw the sword, it was so fast. But it wasn’t attacking me. It was going for the heart hound behind me, protecting me. I never even saw the heart hound until I was falling backward. It must have killed the hound. That wolf saved my life.â€

Kahlan straightened herself and put her fists on her hips. “Brophy!†she called into the darkness. “Brophy! I know you’re out there. Come here this instant!â€

The wolf trotted into the torchlight with its head down and its tail between its legs. Its thick fur was a charcoal color from the tip of its nose to the tip of its tail. Fierce yellow eyes glowed from its dark head. The wolf dropped to its belly and crawled to Kahlan’s feet. Once there, it rolled onto its back with paws in the air, and whined.

“Brophy!†she admonished. “Have you been following us?â€

“Only to protect you, Mistress.â€

Richard’s jaw dropped. He wondered how hard he had been hit on the head. “He can talk! I heard him! That wolf can talk!â€

<< Blah Blah Blah Blah >>

When they sat around the fire, Richard addressed the wolf as it sat on its haunches next to Kahlan. “Wolf, I guess…â€

“Brophy. The name’s Brophy.â€

Richard sat back a little. “Brophy. Sorry. My name is Richard, and this is Zedd. Brophy, I would like to thank you for saving my life.â€

“Don’t mention it,†he growled.

“Brophy,†Kahlan said in a disapproving voice, “what are you doing here?â€

The wolf’s ears flattened. “There is danger for you. I have been protection you.â€

“You have been released,†she scolded.

“Was that you last night?â€

Richard asked.

Brophy regarded him with yellow eyes. “Yes. Whenever you camped, I cleared the area of heart hounds. And a few other nasty things. Last night, close to morning, one came near to your camp. I took care of it. This hound tonight was hunting you. He could hear your heart beating. I knew Mistress Kahlan would be unhappy if he ate you, so I kept him from doing it.â€

<< Blah blah blah blah>>

Kahlan locked her fingers around a knee, clicking her thumbnails together. “Richard, do you rmember when I told you that sometimes, when we took a confession, the person turned out to be innocent? And once in a great while, one who was to be executed would ask to give a confession so as to prove his innocence?†Richard nodded. She cast an eye to the wolf. “Brophy was to be executed for killing a little boy…â€

“I don’t kill children,†the wolf growled, coming to his feet.

“Do you wish to tell the story?â€

The wolf sank back down. “No, Mistress.â€

“Brophy would have rather been touched by a Confessor’s power than be thought a child killer. Not to mention what else was done to that little boy. He requested a Confessor. It’s something done only rarely – most men choose the executioner – but it meant that much to him. I told you we have a wizard with us, when we take confessions. One reason is for protection, but there is another reason. In a case like this, where the person is unjustly accused, and found to be innocent, he is still left touched by our power, he cannot be returned to who he was. So, the wizard changes him to something else. The changing takes away some of the magic, of the Confessor, and gives him enough concern for himself to start over with a new life.â€

Richard was incredulous. “You were innocent? And yet you are to be left like this? For life?â€

“Completely innocent,†Brophy confirmed.

“Brophy.†Kahlan spoke his name in a rising tone Richard was familiar with.

The wolf sank back down. “Of killing that boy.†His cowering eyes looked up at Kahlan as she watched him. “That’s all I meant. Innocent of killing that boy.â€

Richard frowned. “What does that mean?â€

Kahlan looked over to him. “It means that when he gave his confession, he confessed to other things he was not accused of. You see, Broph had been engaged in occupations of a dubious nature.†She glanced down at the wolf. “at the gray edges of law.â€

<<Blah blah blah blah>>

“When Brophy was a man, he was as big for a man as he is for a wolf. He sometimes used his size to ‘persuade’ people to do as he wished. Is this not true, Brophy?â€

The wolf’s ears wilted. “It’s true, Mistress. I have a temper. A temper as big as my muscles. But it only came out when I was wronged….When I settled disagreements with my temper, they tended to stay settled.â€

Kahlan gave the wolf a little smile. “Brophy had a reputation that, although not unearned, was larger than the truth.†She looked up at Richard. “The business he was in was dangerous, and therefore very profitable. Brophy mad enough money at it to support his ‘hobby.’ Almost no one knew about it until after I touched him, and he made his confession.â€

The wolf put his paws over his head. “Oh, Mistress, please! Must we?â€

Richard frowned. “What was this ‘hobby’?â€

Kahlan’s smile widened. “Brophy had a weakness. Children. As he traveled around in search of things to trad, he would stop at orphanages and see to it they had what they needed to take care of the children. All the gold he made ended up in different orphanages,, so the children could be cared for, and not go hungry.â€

<<Blah blah>>

Brophy’s pawss were still over his head, and his eyes squeezed tightly shut. “Mistress, please,†he whined, “I have a reputation.†He opened his eyes and rose up on his front paws. “And a well-earned one at that! I’ve broken my share of arms and noses! I’ve done some pretty despicable deeds!â€

<<Blah blah blah>>

“Brophy insisted upon the confession.†Richard could see the firelight reflecting in the wetness of her green eyes. “Afterward, I asked him to pick another creature he would choose to be, if he had a choice. He chose a wolf. Why a wolf, I don’t know.†She smiled a little. “I guess it fits his nature.â€

“ Because wolves are honorable creatures. “ Richard smiled. “You haven’t lived in the forest, you’ve lived among people. Wolves are very social creatures, have strong ties and relationships. They are fiercely protective of their young. The whole pack will fight to protect them. And all members of the pack care for the young.â€

“You understand,†Brophy whispered.

~ Terry Goodkind, Wizard's First Rule

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have all these goodkind quotes been from the same book?

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have all these goodkind quotes been from the same book?

the last couple have been from WFR.

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