Cersei in AFFC

[Theda Baratheon]

I don't see the misogyny when he punished both men and women for the same crime? Please explain to me the big difference?

It is about Cersei and it led to her punishment, which was not even in AFFC. Justice is all about giving the right punishment to fit the right crime. This is why punishments are compared. In general the punishments in Westeros are MUCH, MUCH harsher than our day. Nor is Cersei being punished in isolation. She is believed by the High Septon to be guilty of numerous other crimes. Her Walk of Shame is not just about her affairs, but about the other things they believe her to be guilty of as well

It's the way they are being punished, jesus christ, why are you being so obtuse, is this deliberate?

Cersei was paraded naked and shaved in front of the whole of the City, she, the Queen, was shown in all faults and flaws, her aging body, she was made to walk barefoot among the filth of the city and have people chuck crap all over her and insult her. All of this for sleeping with some men. THAT IS MISOGYNISTIC. The kettlebacks were punished for the same crime, but they were punished in a completely different way. I'd be less disturbed if Cersei was punished in exactly the same way, actually, it would be horrible and cruel and I'd get no sense of joy from it, but I would NOT be saying it was purposefully misogynistic if they BOTH got the SAME treatment, WHAT exactly is there to understand here? It's pretty damn simple.

[TheMysteriousOne]

It's the way they are being punished, jesus christ, why are you being so obtuse, is this deliberate?

Cersei was paraded naked and shaved in front of the whole of the City, she, the Queen, was shown in all faults and flaws, her aging body, she was made to walk barefoot among the filth of the city and have people chuck crap all over her and insult her. All of this for sleeping with some men. THAT IS MISOGYNISTIC. The kettlebacks were punished for the same crime, but they were punished in a completely different way. I'd be less disturbed if Cersei was punished in exactly the same way, actually, it would be horrible and cruel and I'd get no sense of joy from it, but I would NOT be saying it was purposefully misogynistic if they BOTH got the SAME treatment, WHAT exactly is there to understand here? It's pretty damn simple.

:agree:

[illrede]

No, you're wrong, that isn't the case at all. Someone can act in a misogynistic way and still act in a shitty way towards men too.

And I have to repeat, we're discussing Cersei because this is a thread about Cersei.

Yes and we are discussing why she got off lightly compared to what the others got. If there is any misogyny from the HIgh Septon it is towards the men, who were treated far worse.

Her Walk of Shame was far more lenient than what the other participants got.

This is a different sort of mysogeny, that does not get much attention. Female disempowerment isn't all downsides; because she is a woman, it is dificult for them to see Cersei capable of the responsibility to envision commit those crimes in the first place. She is a treasonous agent and monsterous murderer. All they could let themselves see was a depraved woman. She knew her audience, that was the result she was playing to when she "confessed", and she got it. That she realized she had blown her mystique of power 9/10ths of the way through the walk doesn't enter into it.

[indignant mushroom]

It's the way they are being punished, jesus christ, why are you being so obtuse, is this deliberate?

Cersei was paraded naked and shaved in front of the whole of the City, she, the Queen, was shown in all faults and flaws, her aging body, she was made to walk barefoot among the filth of the city and have people chuck crap all over her and insult her. All of this for sleeping with some men. THAT IS MISOGYNISTIC. The kettlebacks were punished for the same crime, but they were punished in a completely different way. I'd be less disturbed if Cersei was punished in exactly the same way, actually, it would be horrible and cruel and I'd get no sense of joy from it, but I would NOT be saying it was purposefully misogynistic if they BOTH got the SAME treatment, WHAT exactly is there to understand here? It's pretty damn simple.

:agree:

[Grimbold]

It's one thing that Littlefinger was right about: she thinks she's so powerful, yet she'll bring down the realm alone if given the chance :P

[mrunderhill]

It's the way they are being punished, jesus christ, why are you being so obtuse, is this deliberate?

Cersei was paraded naked and shaved in front of the whole of the City, she, the Queen, was shown in all faults and flaws, her aging body, she was made to walk barefoot among the filth of the city and have people chuck crap all over her and insult her. All of this for sleeping with some men. THAT IS MISOGYNISTIC. The kettlebacks were punished for the same crime, but they were punished in a completely different way. I'd be less disturbed if Cersei was punished in exactly the same way, actually, it would be horrible and cruel and I'd get no sense of joy from it, but I would NOT be saying it was purposefully misogynistic if they BOTH got the SAME treatment, WHAT exactly is there to understand here? It's pretty damn simple.

I am not being obtuse, I am making a point that you don't like and don't want to address. We always compare the severity of punishments, because that is how we judge how fair the punishment was. There is nothing icky about this at all. If someone got 20 years for stealing a chocolate bar we will say he was punished harshly compared to somebody else, who got community service for the same crime.

Osney too is stripped naked and shamed too. However, instead of insults he gets a whip on his back. Cersei getting a lighter punishment is the misogyny towards women? The real matter at stake here is power. Cersei has powerful friends, who got her a lighter punishment.

Cersei has a choice as to whether to take the Walk of Shem or remain in prison. I am sure the others accused would have loved such a choice too, but they don't get one.

"I have spoken with His High Holiness. He will not release you until you have atoned for your sins." "I have confessed." "Atoned, I said. Before the city. A walk - " "No." She knew what her uncle was about to say, and she did not want to hear it. "Never. Tell him that, if you speak again. I am a queen, not some dockside whore."

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

Being that Cersei is also a mysoginist towards most other women for the same non-crimes to which she's confessing, it is actually a bit poetic to have her receive the same or similar treatment she inflicted on Alayaya and enjoyed when her father inflicted it on that whore at Casterly Rock. I won't call it justice, because we obviously all have different definitions for that, but it definitely doesn't come out of nowhere.

[WinterWarrior]

I absolutely despise Cersei more than any other character, even the Freys. She is my #1 hated character. How people on this forum can say she cares about her children I don't understand....she uses everyone, even her children. The only reason she gave a rat's ass about Joff or Tommen is they were (are) her key to power. She is a power hungry witch and I am so waiting for GRRM to give her a terrible death.

The way she sends people to Qyburn in the black cells is just monsterous. I have this fear she will do that to Brienne some day and that is why Jamie will kill Cersei eventually. I truly believe he is the valonqar (sp?) and cannot kill her soon enough in my opinion. And when Dany arrives with her dragons Cersei will be nothing more than a fly to be squashed.

I loathe Cersei and she deserves so much more than what she got in the Walk of Shame, there is no punishment that equals Cersei's crimes and what she has done transcends gender. So don't give me any "you hate her because she is a woman" crap....she is a loathsome creature. (I am female) The HBO Cersei is too soft, people have to read the book to appreciate how truly loathsome she is.

[illrede]

Being that Cersei is also a mysoginist towards most other women for the same non-crimes to which she's confessing, it is actually a bit poetic to have her receive the same or similar treatment she inflicted on Alayaya and enjoyed when her father inflicted it on that whore at Casterly Rock. I won't call it justice, because we obviously all have different definitions for that, but it definitely doesn't come out of nowhere.

The court that is doing this to her was created by her to kill Margery and her ladies. For oddly enough, this exact reason.

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

The court that is doing this to her was created by her to kill Margery and her ladies. For oddly enough, this exact reason.

:lol: Good point. She'd be first in line to hurl shit at Margery if she was Walking in Shame, as Cersei intended.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Cersei is the undisputed master of the Double Standard. :P

Psssst. her Walk happened in ADWD...

[melanniemunoz]

Cersei is a very interesting character and one of my favourite POV's. She is not the most reliable narrator though.

I'd have to agree with that.

[melanniemunoz]

Being that Cersei is also a mysoginist towards most other women for the same non-crimes to which she's confessing, it is actually a bit poetic to have her receive the same or similar treatment she inflicted on Alayaya and enjoyed when her father inflicted it on that whore at Casterly Rock. I won't call it justice, because we obviously all have different definitions for that, but it definitely doesn't come out of nowhere.

:agree: Most definitely. Cersei claims she's not treated fairly, and rains down women in similar positions as her.

[melanniemunoz]

It's the way they are being punished, jesus christ, why are you being so obtuse, is this deliberate?

Cersei was paraded naked and shaved in front of the whole of the City, she, the Queen, was shown in all faults and flaws, her aging body, she was made to walk barefoot among the filth of the city and have people chuck crap all over her and insult her. All of this for sleeping with some men. THAT IS MISOGYNISTIC. The kettlebacks were punished for the same crime, but they were punished in a completely different way. I'd be less disturbed if Cersei was punished in exactly the same way, actually, it would be horrible and cruel and I'd get no sense of joy from it, but I would NOT be saying it was purposefully misogynistic if they BOTH got the SAME treatment, WHAT exactly is there to understand here? It's pretty damn simple.

Couldn't of said it better myself. As much as I hate Cersei, I can't deny this was just wrong. I pitied her very little.

[Elaena Targaryen]

On the Walk of Shame Martin thinks it's misogynistic.

http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/21/dance-with-dragons-shocking-twist-g/

One of my favorite chapters, perhaps of the whole series, was Cersei’s walk of shame. I was riveted.

That was an interesting chapter to write, and based on actual medieval events. Jane Shore, mistress of King Edward IV, was punished that way after Edward died. It’s going to be a controversial scene when it comes out — is it misogynistic or feminist? It wasn’t a punishment ever inflicted on men. It was a punishment directed at women to break their pride. And Cersei is defined by her pride.

She does display some shrewdness the day she goes to Baelor's scept and negotiates with the High Holiness. Urging Meryn to move the crowd aside gently, choosing to walk rather than start a confrontation, then accomplishing three goals in one by obtaining the blessing for Tommen and getting rid of the sparrows and debt. We can only assume she had a rare moment of her old clarity and sobriety on this day.

I don't think rearming the Faith and giving this crazy High Septon power was anything close to being shrewd. Look at how it came back to bite her with Cersei being kept prisoner at the Sept, the public penance walk and her upcoming trial. If Cersei did not hand the HS that power he would have never been able to force the Queen Regent to do any of that.

Every other woman in her life is either a whore (Taena, Margaery) or... does she ever interact with any woman that she doesn't deride as a whore, actually? Apart from the septas and people she doesn't think about at all, she's probably the biggest slut-shamer in the books, if only because that's her go-to allegation.

No Cersei gets the septas too.

Cersei did not intend to squander Tommen’s strength playing wet nurse to sparrows, or guarding the wrinkled cunts of a thousand sour septas. Half of them are probably praying for a good raping

[Danielsnag]

I think she's a complete idiot who thinks that she can play on the level of people such as Varys and Littlefinger, when she is actually as much of a pawn as Sansa was.

I really did enjoy her chapters though. Experiencing her implosion was really fascinating.

EDIT: spelling

[Sansa_Stark]

It's the way they are being punished, jesus christ, why are you being so obtuse, is this deliberate?

Cersei was paraded naked and shaved in front of the whole of the City, she, the Queen, was shown in all faults and flaws, her aging body, she was made to walk barefoot among the filth of the city and have people chuck crap all over her and insult her. All of this for sleeping with some men. THAT IS MISOGYNISTIC. The kettlebacks were punished for the same crime, but they were punished in a completely different way. I'd be less disturbed if Cersei was punished in exactly the same way, actually, it would be horrible and cruel and I'd get no sense of joy from it, but I would NOT be saying it was purposefully misogynistic if they BOTH got the SAME treatment, WHAT exactly is there to understand here? It's pretty damn simple.

I can say I think it depends on the time and place really, and ultimately who gets pissed off/has power.

Read up on Ser Lucamore the Lusty. He was basically punished for doing something similar to Cersei.

And in a misandrystic(sp) way as well.

[Mark Antony]

I hope she takes the high septon down, too.

Amen,

[Dany Girl]

It's the way they are being punished, jesus christ, why are you being so obtuse, is this deliberate?

Cersei was paraded naked and shaved in front of the whole of the City, she, the Queen, was shown in all faults and flaws, her aging body, she was made to walk barefoot among the filth of the city and have people chuck crap all over her and insult her. All of this for sleeping with some men. THAT IS MISOGYNISTIC. The kettlebacks were punished for the same crime, but they were punished in a completely different way. I'd be less disturbed if Cersei was punished in exactly the same way, actually, it would be horrible and cruel and I'd get no sense of joy from it, but I would NOT be saying it was purposefully misogynistic if they BOTH got the SAME treatment, WHAT exactly is there to understand here? It's pretty damn simple.

:agree: 100%.

Her "punishment" was not fitting of the Queen. It was 100% the HS's way of knocking her down a few pegs since he feels she's too high and mighty. The KB's punishment was in private. Hers was to be paraded in front of the people she's supposed to help lead and to take away power. It was akin to rape, it was a sexual assault, and it was wrong.

[SeanF]

I enjoy Cersei's chapters a lot.

I'd heard of the Walk of Shame, prior to reading ADWD, and assumed I'd revel at her humiliation. But, not a bit of it. It was horrible to read, and did what I thought was impossible. It made me sympathise with Cersei and loathe the High Sparrow. It would take an exceptionally nasty mind to subject a Queen to that sort of humiliation.

While the HS is virulently misogynistic, I also think he was sending a message to the nobility generally; that he can humiliate any one of them.