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The idiot named Syrio Forel


GGK1986

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Why, though? The point was to have the PoV character internalize the "look with your eyes" lesson, see it was doomed, and flee; it was not to show a nonsensical case of a sword managing to go through armour, only for Trant to become wolverine and heal immediately.

i don't even want the fight in the PoV , i just want Arya to note that he picked up a sword and then leave

also, if every soldier who suffered a wound was as doomed as you make them out to be with your "Wolverine" remark then every battle is only until first blood

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1. Taking your eyes off your opponent is death.

2. Finding and picking up a sword is not done in 1 second.

3 1+2 = certain death if you attempt what the OP suggested

Is it me or is there a delicious irony in how the fanboys call Syrio an idiot for not just supermanning his way out of the situation ?

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1. Taking your eyes off your opponent is death.

2. Finding and picking up a sword is not done in 1 second.

3 1+2 = certain death if you attempt what the OP suggested

Is it me or is there a delicious irony in how the fanboys call Syrio an idiot for not just supermanning his way out of the situation ?

i don't know why people like the guy so much, i never gave him a second thought

and if there is a gun on the ground and you have a toy gun in your hand do you try to get the gun or do you shoot with the toy ?

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excuse me ?

now i'm not entitled to an opinion ?

Did I say that? Of course you are.

It reflects on you though. So perhaps instead of proclaiming an experienced and highly skilled fighter 'an idiot', you might first think that maybe, just maybe, your understanding of the situation is not as comprehensive as you thought?

Its not you personally though, its a wide trend I'm commenting on.

And maybe I'm guilty myslf. I frequently call Brandon Stark an idiot (though at least I have textual backing in that one from Hoster Tully).

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and if there is a gun on the ground and you have a toy gun in your hand do you try to get the gun or do you shoot with the toy ?

Well, if you know that going for the gun on the ground means death, I'd imagine it doesn't really matter does it ? Might as well shoot the toy gun to distract your foe and buy some more time for your friend to run, rather than going for the real gun and dieing right away.

This is why Syrio is in a hopeless situation. Which even Arya realizes, as per the 'look with your eyes' bit in the book. Syrio is check mate. Go for sword ? Dead. Don't go for sword ? Dead.

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i don't even want the fight in the PoV , i just want Arya to note that he picked up a sword and then leave

also, if every soldier who suffered a wound was as doomed as you make them out to be with your "Wolverine" remark then every battle is only until first blood

And I don't understand why, it's totally unecessary, as was showing anything else from that fight. Scratch that, it would even be detrimental to the impact of that scene. From a storytelling point of view, it would contradict what the scene was meant to teach Arya: her realisation did incorporate Syrio having "a broken stick" and Trant "cruel steel"... you give her a hope spot and either her assessment of the fight shows her unbelievably experienced in those things, or it makes her a coward/idiot, or it makes her stay; either way it goes against what is meant to be told in that scene.

As for the wolverine comment, a non-incapaciting wound goes against the setting, as armour is not supposed to be circumvented that easily, and when it is it's in vital areas (eyes, armpits, groin...) and if it was incapaciting, then Trant would need to be wolverine to be next shown totally healthy and hale, happy to beat Sansafor Joffrey.

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Did I say that? Of course you are.

It reflects on you though. So perhaps instead of proclaiming an experienced and highly skilled fighter 'an idiot', you might first think that maybe, just maybe, your understanding of the situation is not as comprehensive as you thought?

Its not you personally though, its a wide trend I'm commenting on.

And maybe I'm guilty myslf. I frequently call Brandon Stark an idiot (though at least I have textual backing in that one from Hoster Tully).

i understand that it's dangerous to reach for something in a fight but are you seriously saying, that while he was disarming them and picking eyeballs and breaking knees he didn't have a single chance to snatch some steel, from the hand of some poor sob who just got his eye pop'd (i just can't buy that)

PS:perhaps i was too blunt with my reaction, i apologize if i have offended

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Yeah, I think it's kind of ridiculous to call Syrio an idiot after he just saved one of the best characters while fighting off numerous soldiers. I'm sure he had his reasons for doing such an "idiotic" act and maybe over-confidence was one of them.

This reminds me of times when I'm watching sports or MMA with someone who has no knowledge of it and they keep asking why they just don't do this or that like it's as easy as what they're implying.

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And I don't understand why, it's totally unecessary, as was showing anything else from that fight. Scratch that, it would even be detrimental to the impact of that scene. From a storytelling point of view, it would contradict what the scene was meant to teach Arya: her realisation did incorporate Syrio having "a broken stick" and Trant "cruel steel"... you give her a hope spot and either her assessment of the fight shows her unbelievably experienced in those things, or it makes her a coward/idiot, or it makes her stay; either way it goes against what is meant to be told in that scene.

As for the wolverine comment, a non-incapaciting wound goes against the setting, as armour is not supposed to be circumvented that easily, and when it is it's in vital areas (eyes, armpits, groin...) and if it was incapaciting, then Trant would need to be wolverine to be next shown totally healthy and hale, happy to beat Sansafor Joffrey.

if Arya was supposed to learn anything she's learned it at harenhal, "why keep showing her all this death she's already seen it", if we go by your logic

KL is not that big of a part in her development (except for Ned dying) IMO

and armor is not perfect in every other duel we've read about the combatants got hurt (vardis hurt his arm and kept going quite well, the mountain got picked by oberyns spear and kept going and they all drew blood)

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Well, if you know that going for the gun on the ground means death, I'd imagine it doesn't really matter does it ? Might as well shoot the toy gun to distract your foe and buy some more time for your friend to run, rather than going for the real gun and dieing right away.

This is why Syrio is in a hopeless situation. Which even Arya realizes, as per the 'look with your eyes' bit in the book. Syrio is check mate. Go for sword ? Dead. Don't go for sword ? Dead.

i understand that it's dangerous to reach for something in a fight but are you seriously saying, that while he was disarming them and picking eyeballs and breaking knees he didn't have a single chance to snatch some steel, from the hand of some poor sob who just got his eye pop'd (i just can't buy that)

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if Arya was supposed to learn anything she's learned it at harenhal, "why keep showing her all this death she's already seen it",

I have no idea what you are talking about, truly. "Seeing with your eyes" has nothing to do with death and it was a needed lesson to survive in KL itself. KL comes way before Harrenhal, I'm sure you're aware.

And saying Arya has no devlopment there is daft to a high degree, in my eyes.

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I have no idea what you are talking about, truly. "Seeing with your eyes" has nothing to do with death and it was a needed lesson to survive in KL itself. KL comes way before Harrenhal, I'm sure you're aware.

And saying Arya has no devlopment there is daft to a high degree, in my eyes.

i don't see it that way (if her whole arc in AGOT revolved around one line,then maybe you should reconsider)

and you're saying that arya had to see that syrio had no chance, well didn't she see the same thing in the riverlanders in the village

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When you're in a sword fight, you can't just turn your attention away from your opponent, that's a deadly mistake to make. Grabbing a sword would have meant focusing on that sword instead of Trant, and bending over to get the sword would have given Trant even better opportunities to kill Syrio. Really, trying to pick up a swor would have been one of the worst things to do in Syrio's position.

Agreed he did the best he could, he didnt have the time to pick up a sword also Syrio is a bravo not a westerosi knight im not sure he is proficient with a greatsword.

Wouldnt call him an idiot, he fought to the death honorably defending a child, anyone who died doing the honorable thing IMO is not an idiot for said action.

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Wouldnt call him an idiot, he fought to the death honorably defending a child, anyone who died doing the honorable thing IMO is not an idiot for said action.

Dying when he could try to escape with Arya is pretty dumb.

Syrio could throw something against the enemies to distract them, hack some of them and, quickly, try to go through the door with Arya.

Only fools die with "honour" instead of trying to survive to fight another day.

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Dying when he could try to escape with Arya is pretty dumb.

Syrio could throw something against the enemies to distract them, hack some of them and, quickly, try to go through the door with Arya.

Only fools die with "honour" instead of trying to survive to fight another day.

I agree.

To be honest, I just saw the scene on youtube before I made this thread and in that, Syrio was 3 meters removed from Trant with swords available literally at his feet, when he was holding a broken stick made of wood.

I respect the (faceless) man that made sure Arya got away, but a skilled warrior like himself would have been able to pick up a sword and defend himself and help Arya more than just getting her out 1 room.

Remember, she had a whole Red Keep and Kings Landing to escape from with guards all over the place looking for her.

Maybe this was all he could do. If so, I was wrong about his capabilities. Personally I think he could have done more. Either way, I believe him dead. Arya could not have faced all that she faced and become what she is becoming with Syrio at her side all along the way, ofcourse.

I'm convinced that not every uncertainty left bij GRRM means something big. The crypticness describing Syrio's death could just be a way of GRRM saying: don't see plotholes or theories in everything. I hope so, because otherwise we will have too many loose ends getting tied up in the final 2 books, and I want storylines!

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Dying when he could try to escape with Arya is pretty dumb.

Syrio could throw something against the enemies to distract them, hack some of them and, quickly, try to go through the door with Arya.

Only fools die with "honour" instead of trying to survive to fight another day.

You really think Meryn Trant and his guards would let Syrio just walk out? Even with a distraction it wouldnt be enough to get past 5 plus guards.

"If you dont have something worth dying for, then life isnt worth living"

Death before dishonor.

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Death before dishonor.

Well, I couldn't agree less. I find it beyond the meaning of stupid that you would die for your honor. No man lives a full life without being not honorable once or twice. Any man pretending he did or does, is full of shit.

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1.

dont feed the mighty potato troll.

2.

maybe his intention wasnt to win the fight but to make it last as long as possible. not dragging around a heavy iron sword that slows done your movement and your blows might contribute to that goal to give arya more time to get away. plus, picking up a sword (and therefor losing sight of your enemy) is a big risk - it could have ended the fight with arya still in sight, maybe he didnt want to risk that with her still around. i see plenty of good reason not to pick up a sword right there. how come you couldnt figure that out before making the thread?

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