Theory: Darkstar's father (TWoW Spoilers)

[snowynightfall]

And that effort is exactly why I find this theory easy to latch onto. It's GRRM! He likes to try and trick. Really makes it fun :)

[Ser Tahu]

The problem with this theory is that GRRM goes out of his way during Tyrion and Oberyn's first meeting to have the former musing over how every last known bastard of the Red Viper's has been a girl, that he's never fathered a son. So this theory doesn't carry much water for me at all.

If anything that quote would be foreshadowing for Oberyn having a son.

[Russo]

Yeah myself personally it actually adds weight to the theory, but of course I would think that.

[alienarea]

To me it makes more sense if his father were Arthur Dayne. It explains why Darkstar is dangerous, and complains about Arthur Dayne. And if the Targaryens are into incest the Daynes might do it for fashion as well.

[hrafna]

It makes sense to cover up any noble related bastard child infractions by oberyn. Remember how he got his nickname of the viper? Doran has less of a hold over his vassals than other great houses, plus doran is very very tight lipped. Keeping something like this quiet would be paramount for house martell.

[Alia of the knife]

Great theory, and one that makes everything fit into place.

And the other motive for killing Myrcella could also be as he says: "for Elia."

This would still agree with his being Oberyns son as Elia was his "fathers" beloved sister, and DS may be willing to do anything to get his fathers approval if he knows his father is less than impressed with him.

It would also explain why he would be highborn enough, (blood wise), to marry Arianne, as well as his almost arrogant disdain for the sword of the morning.

Another thought I had regarding DS, is his encounter with an adult Arya. There are many directions that fate could take her, but given the name of her direwolf and that I think as totems, or guardians of the Stark children, their names are significant, her fate could also lie in Dorne.

She is also the only other one referred to with darkness:

"The dwarf woman studied her with dim red eyes. "I see you," she whispered. "I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death . . . " She began to sob, her little body shaking. "You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!"

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

To me it makes more sense if his father were Arthur Dayne. It explains why Darkstar is dangerous, and complains about Arthur Dayne.

I agree with this. Many of the details fit just as well in this scenario too.

It's still a very good theory. Basically all of these theories confirm that Darkstar isn't just an indigo shaggy-dog story.

[Alia of the knife]

I agree with this. Many of the details fit just as well in this scenario too.

It's still a very good theory. Basically all of these theories confirm that Darkstar isn't just an indigo shaggy-dog story.

I agree with this as well.

Either one fills in the gaps, but I'm a little more partial to Elia being DS mother with Arthur Dayne, because to the Martell brothers, that is a very dangerous secret indeed. It would have called into question Elias behavior and the legitimacy of her other children with Rhaegar.

[RedChick]

Wow, fantastic theory OP! I always found it a bit too unbelievable that Oberyn only fathered daughters from different women. Plus I'd hate Darkstar a little less if this turned out to be true.

[brut]

Haven't we already found Oberyn's son in Dany's bed?

I would rather think of Darkstar as Elia and Arthur's son.

[Alia of the knife]

I'm really sold now that DS is half Martell, if nothing else for the reference to DS being weaned on venom.

I think it's likely more of a Martell thing since historically there have been tales of ruling families being fed poisons in small doses throughout their lives in order to stave off assassination by poison.

"I was weaned on venom, Dalt. Any viper takes a bite of me will rue it." Ser Gerold vanished through a broken arch."

[RedChick]

Haven't we already found Oberyn's son in Dany's bed?

I would rather think of Darkstar as Elia and Arthur's son.

Although I'm aware of the Elia and Arthur being in love/affair theory; I have a hard time believing that Elia would've had an affair, let alone this affair resulting with a child (it's been said several times that Elia had frail health).

[qixoticneurotic]

Aeris couldnt claim the first night on the lannisters but on a lesser branch of house dayne? or rhaegar could have showed his dastardly side earlier than we thought. a misuse of power by the ruling family while the famous arthur dayne ignored it would set a cynical example for a young knight. the first in a new line of blackfire pretenders with the goldencompany in dorne.

[Alia of the knife]

Aeris couldnt claim the first night on the lannisters but on a lesser branch of house dayne? or rhaegar could have showed his dastardly side earlier than we thought. a misuse of power by the ruling family while the famous arthur dayne ignored it would set a cynical example for a young knight. the first in a new line of blackfire pretenders with the goldencompany in dorne.

Maybe Aerys, but wouldn't DS be too old to be Rhaegars son?

He's in his mid to late twenties, or the same as Arianne who is twenty-five.

[Russo]

Found another quote that could be connected to the theory:

From AFfC, The Queenmaker:

"Princess". Ser Gerold Dayne stood behind her, half in Starlight half in shadow.

If this is an insight into Darkstar, the half in starlight would refer to the Dayne side of his parents.

The half in shadow would refer to the other parent.

Could this mean one of his parents is hidden, or hidden from him, or from the world. Could it mean the parent is dead? They talk of Oberyn a few sentences later.

I like the idea that its hidden, and fits well with the theory.

[Alia of the knife]

Found another quote that could be connected to the theory:

From AFfC, The Queenmaker:

"Princess". Ser Gerold Dayne stood behind her, half in Starlight half in shadow.

If this is an insight into Darkstar, the half in starlight would refer to the Dayne side of his parents.

The half in shadow would refer to the other parent.

Could this mean one of his parents is hidden, or hidden from him, or from the world. Could it mean the parent is dead? They talk of Oberyn a few sentences later.

I like the idea that its hidden, and fits well with the theory.

Good catch!

[Starkfaithful85]

Also, if Oberyn wanted to kill him, why didn't he? Fear of being a kinslayer?EDIT: Another Darkstar quote regarding Vipers, poison etc."Watch where you set your feet," Drey cautioned. "It has been a while since Prince Oberyn milked the local vipers.""I was weaned on venom, Dalt. Any viper takes a bite of me will rue it." Ser Gerold vanished through a broken arch.Although not all snakes are immune to their own venom, I believe Vipers areThe attack on Myrcella:A revenge attack for the death of his father?Purpose in the plot:So what would it serve should my theory be true in regards to the story?If Darkstar is the legitimised bastard of Oberyn Martell, the order of succession for the prince of Dorne would be (stand to be corrected):Doran (old)Arianne (A woman)Trystane (A boy, betrothed to a Lannister)DarkstarIs this why Doran describes him as the most dangerous man in Dorne? Because he is the next man in line for the seat of Sunspear?So let me have it. What are the holes in the theory?

[Russo]

Another thought on how, if true, this theory influences the story.

In the world of GRRM genetics, it would show that when a purple eyed person has a child with a Martell, the dark eyed Martell gene causes the eyes to be a dark shade of purple.

IIRC, Rhaegar is described as having dark purple eyes. Young Griff however, has light purple eyes. If he truly was the son of Rhaegar and Elia Martell, his eyes should not be a lighter shade of Rhaegars, but darker, adding weight to him being fake.

[Greymoon]

Another thought on how, if true, this theory influences the story.

In the world of GRRM genetics, it would show that when a purple eyed person has a child with a Martell, the dark eyed Martell gene causes the eyes to be a dark shade of purple.

IIRC, Rhaegar is described as having dark purple eyes. Young Griff however, has light purple eyes. If he truly was the son of Rhaegar and Elia Martell, his eyes should not be a lighter shade of Rhaegars, but darker, adding weight to him being fake.

I'm thinking rather that Darkstar’s purpose (if he is the son of Oberyn) is to destabilize Dorne... Darkstar reminds me quite a bit of Daario Naharis, only more dangerous...I believe he might appeal to Dany.

Doran is ill, I wouldn't be too surprised if he died sometime soon, and technically Arianne is his heir - but it seems that even in Dorne it can be difficult for a woman to hold onto her birthright (Arianne’s fear is IMO not unfounded)...After Quentyn’s death I’d expect Doran/Arianne to lend support to fAegon...leading Dany to seek out other allies – in that context, Darkstar’s revelation as a potential heir to Sunspear could actually cause a rather big conflict in the Dornish succession: some of the houses sworn to the Martells might consider that Dany is the only true Targaryen – the uncertainty of fAegon's birth would then directly undermine Arianne’s authority and legitimacy as a ruler. The dornish would have to chose between Aegon+Arianne or Dany+Darkstar.

[Russo]

Oh I certainly agree that he has a more important role than just his eye colour. I just think it could also be a clue that Young Griff is fake for the readers.