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Who told Doran Martell of the plan to kill Trystane on arriving in KL?


Mrs_Darcy

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In AFFC Doran Martell is told that Cersei plans to stage an ambush, when they return to King's Landing and to have Trystane Martell killed.

Doran mentions "friends at court" , who told him about it. But who are those "friends at court".

My only guess is, that the information comes from Varys, who I think was hiding in the Red Keep at that time, since Cersei does not even tell her Small Council about it.

Do you have any other ideas?

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Correct me if I'm wrong (and I could well be), but do we ever see Cersei think of this plan in her POV? Because the only instance I can remember it is of Doran talking about it, which seems highly suspicious.

Now, Doran himself probably doesn't need to give the Sand Snakes and Arianne another reason to distrust/fight the Lannisters, but what if Varys made up the plan? At some point he knows he'll need the Martells to act, and making it seem like Cersei threatened Doran's son could do the trick.

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Correct me if I'm wrong (and I could well be), but do we ever see Cersei think of this plan in her POV? Because the only instance I can remember it is of Doran talking about it, which seems highly suspicious.

Yes, we see do her thinking of it. Well, probably:

What Cersei did was think that Balon Swann had a secret mission in Dorne which she shouldn't share with the Small Council. Of course we can't tell for sure whether that secret mission she gave Balon is really exactly the secret mission Doran's intel described. (My personal gut feeling though is a very strong: "Of course it is, that plan is so typically Cersei!")

Considering she didn't share her plans with the Council, the only one she did share them with would probably be Taena, possibly also Qyburn (but probably not, also as his expertise isn't needed at all). If she was overheard by one of Varys's or possibly Littlefinger's informants when she was talking to Taena or Balon, then they could be the source of the information... but I personally would put my money on Taena directly.

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What would be Taena's motivation to help Dorne? What would the connection be?

It's been often assumed that Taena is one hundred percent loyal to the Tyrells who probably don't want to war with Dorne. This who animosity thing looks a lot like the French Fry bullshit that happened down in the States when France wouldn't go to war in Iraq. It's the leaders dangling idiocy in front of people to give them something to worry about other than their own government.

So, all this border tension, with the odd leader buying into it, a la Mace (who is an idiot), but most leaders don't think about it at all. The Dorne and Tyrell thing may get to the point of Pakistan and India at some point, but to date it seems to be quite muted, and more of a historical animosity between the border populations than an overreaching hatred. Has their ever been a war between Dorne and the Tyrells?

For further information, Pakistan and India are technically at war, and have been for a long time, but they only fight in one region and meanwhile sports teams, entertainers and tourists continue to travel across the border all the time.

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well we know that Dorne and the Reach are ancient enemies - Im guessing when Westeros was 7 seperate kingdoms they fought a lot of border wars. (there is a whole part with Aerys Oakheart describing the tapestries back home involving past battles with Dorne) Everything cooled down until Oberyn crippled Willias in a tourney and then the hatred reignited. The India Pakistan border conflict over Kashmir is a good analogy except both india and Pakistan have nukes. Scary - as for the Taena part I just don't see it. Not that she is loyal to the Tyrells (but then why did she and her husband flee the city when Cerei was captured/held by the high septon?) but that she is a spy sending info to the Prince of Dorne. Its Varys -Prince Doran says we STILL have friends at COURT - its gotta be Varys. He has the means, he would be seen as a believable/reliable source, and he has the motivation

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oh and lost Mebornian - am I wrong when I say Martin "borrowed" heavily from Elric? Ancient mystical race, controlled dragons, ruled the world, lived on a rockin island - Cataclysm that destroys the island leaving only a few survivors.

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  • 2 years later...

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I could well be), but do we ever see Cersei think of this plan in her POV? Because the only instance I can remember it is of Doran talking about it, which seems highly suspicious.

from AFFC, Cersei IV: ""To be sure." A tiresome creature, this prince. "His long wait is almost done. I am sending Balon Swann  to Sunspear, to deliver him the head of Gregor Clegane." Ser Balon would have another task as well, but that part was best left unsaid." 

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oh and lost Mebornian - am I wrong when I say Martin "borrowed" heavily from Elric? Ancient mystical race, controlled dragons, ruled the world, lived on a rockin island - Cataclysm that destroys the island leaving only a few survivors.

Sure feels that way to me. 

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Taena Merryweather is a possible option, Varys as well. My money is on Qyburn however.

Varys may be involved but if so he did not communicate with Doran directly. Someone else is involved as intermediary. More likely is that Varys, if he had anything to do with it, passed on info to serve his own purposes to someone who he knew was spying for Doran. Why? Because if Varys was tight with Doran he would not have kept Aegon secret from him. Doran is Aegon's family and natural ally, so Doran not knowing about Aegon until he arrived in Westeros is suspicious and suggests very weak links between Dorne and Varys.

Taena is a spy for someone, but unclear who. What is clear is that she is not particularly loyal to the Tyrells she arrived in KL with. Furthermore it makes a great deal of sense if Doran planted a spy with the Tyrells...of course he would want to keep tabs on them.

Taena may be spying for LF though instead. She testified strongly against Tyrion, so want him dead and I am not convinced either Doran or Varys wants Tyrion dead.

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Without Cersei's POV of the planning, it's hard to say who would know about it.  It probably wouldn't have been discussed at council.  Qyburn, Taena, and the Kettleblacks seem to be Cersei's most trusted confidants (which says a lot about her judgement).  None seem to have any specific Dornish connection. 

Her handmaids (Jocelyn and Dorcas) are both westerners, so there's no reason to think they'd be in contact with Doran.

When Oberyn arrived in Kings Landing, he brought quite an entourage with him.  We know most of them were in Sunspear by the time Balon Swann showed up, but not all are specifically accounted for.  Still, there's no reason to think someone like Myles Manwoody or Larra Blackmont would have somehow infiltrated Cersei's confidence without ever appearing on page.

So, though Varys is perhaps the most boring choice, he's probably the most likely too.

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Varys may be involved but if so he did not communicate with Doran directly. Someone else is involved as intermediary. More likely is that Varys, if he had anything to do with it, passed on info to serve his own purposes to someone who he knew was spying for Doran. Why? Because if Varys was tight with Doran he would not have kept Aegon secret from him. Doran is Aegon's family and natural ally, so Doran not knowing about Aegon until he arrived in Westeros is suspicious and suggests very weak links between Dorne and Varys.

Taena is a spy for someone, but unclear who. What is clear is that she is not particularly loyal to the Tyrells she arrived in KL with. Furthermore it makes a great deal of sense if Doran planted a spy with the Tyrells...of course he would want to keep tabs on them.

Taena may be spying for LF though instead. She testified strongly against Tyrion, so want him dead and I am not convinced either Doran or Varys wants Tyrion dead.

She could have just been trying to get on Cersei's good side.  It did have that effect.  I am wondering if Taena's dangerous man with scars wasn't Oberyn.

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