from GRRM's blog: Jeyne Westerling and other characters in TWoW

[Slayer of Lies]

He has put ten of his best bowmen around and Edmure and will likely do the same with Jeyne, Her fate may be to die in an attempted attack.

Through which POV do you see this method of resolution occurring? Brienne has no reason to treat with Forley, should she escape the BwB camp, and if Jaime trusts Forley so much, why head back toward him (assuming he escapes instead or as well)?

I personally feel like GRRM's recent mention of Jeyne hints more at in-POV closure than simply hearsay, hence my inclination toward GRRM finding a way to bring Jeyne (back) together with a nearby POV, like Jaime.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Through which POV do you see this method of resolution occurring? Brienne has no reason to treat with Forley, should she escape the BwB camp, and if Jaime trusts Forley so much, why head back toward him (assuming he escapes instead or as well)?

I personally feel like GRRM's recent mention of Jeyne hints more at in-POV closure than simply hearsay, hence my inclination toward GRRM finding a way to bring Jeyne (back) together with a nearby POV, like Jaime.

Hence my ultimate conclusion that Jeyne will only be mentioned in passing at the Crag. My analysis of the guard surrounding Edmure and Jeyne (actually 400) is to point out the fact that they would would almost certainly perish during any such attempt, and I don't think GRRM has death in the cards for either one of them.

Your personal feelings on the matter are just that, your personal feelings. You may very well be right, but I just happen to disagree.

[alienarea]

Through which POV do you see this method of resolution occurring? Brienne has no reason to treat with Forley, should she escape the BwB camp, and if Jaime trusts Forley so much, why head back toward him (assuming he escapes instead or as well)?

I personally feel like GRRM's recent mention of Jeyne hints more at in-POV closure than simply hearsay, hence my inclination toward GRRM finding a way to bring Jeyne (back) together with a nearby POV, like Jaime.

IMHO Jeyne, Jaime, UnCat and the famous "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" need to be resolved in the same chapter.

[Slayer of Lies]

Hence my ultimate conclusion that Jeyne will only be mentioned in passing at the Crag. My analysis of the guard surrounding Edmure and Jeyne (actually 400) is to point out the fact that they would would almost certainly perish during any such attempt, and I don't think GRRM has death in the cards for either one of them.

I don't think we're looking at a math problem here, but rather GRRM's endgame intent with the character. It seems you think Jeyne retires offstage, more or less, where I'm putting my money on something slightly more dramatic and purposeful.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

I don't think we're looking at a math problem here, but rather GRRM's endgame intent with the character. It seems you think Jeyne retires offstage, more or less, where I'm putting my money on something slightly more dramatic and purposeful.

I made no mention of a math problem or anything of the sort. Not sure where that came from, but yes, I think we will find out about Jeyne in a benign way that has no bearing on the overall story.

Thats my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

[Veltigar]

If Jeyne is with the Blackfish, I hope she follows him to the Neck (Blackfish will find survivors of RW and Howland Reed there).

A solid believer in the BF goes to Greywater Watch is always good to see. Since “Jeyne” is apparently headed to the Crag I think that we can be almost sure that she isn’t real (I can’t imagine that Martin would take us to the Crag somehow). So that leaves to scenario’s:

1) Escape with the BF to Greywater Watch. In fact she might be our POV there (I know that Martin said no new POV but I think he meant that in the JonCon sense of POV) instead of the BF. That would be rather interesting (and It would probably turn one of the more bland characters in the ASOIAF universe in an interesting one). In the Neck she would meet HR, Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover and she could meet Edric Dayne (who is still missing). And she could be our eyes and ears to witness the attack on the Twins. In fact I think she could be a better POV than the BF, because she has just lost Robb Stark. And who better to comfort her than a man who knows what it is like to lose a Stark (HR). She might also shed light on the Jyanna = Ashara Dayne theory.

2) Jeyne is real and something happens along the way to the crag and she’s taken to CR. There she interacts with Cersei and Queen Myrcella who retreated to CR after the loss of KL. And Edmure could be there as well. I deem this scenario less likely because I don’t see Jeyne as the younger, more beautiful queen and I don’t want to see a Sansa in KL 2.0 GRRM has already done that so I hope he sends her to the Neck.

[joluoto]

I had a feeling he wasn't done with Jeyne.

[aryagonnakill]

I'd like to point out that Jeyne is not Edmure, i don't think there will be any attack on them, but its a very different thing to tell a guard to kill Edmure if they attack than Jeyne, especially since we saw Jaime issue the order about Edmure and did not see such an order about Jeyne, and we know soon after Jaime left. Also, even if the order was given it is possible that gaurdsmen would hesitate to kill an unarmed woman. Personally I think its most likely we will see her at CR, or perhaps we will hear something really cool that will make us respect Jeyne more, like she poisoned someone or something like that.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

I'd like to point out that Jeyne is not Edmure, i don't think there will be any attack on them, but its a very different thing to tell a guard to kill Edmure if they attack than Jeyne, especially since we saw Jaime issue the order about Edmure and did not see such an order about Jeyne, and we know soon after Jaime left. Also, even if the order was given it is possible that gaurdsmen would hesitate to kill an unarmed woman. Personally I think its most likely we will see her at CR, or perhaps we will hear something really cool that will make us respect Jeyne more, like she poisoned someone or something like that.

1. He did issue the order on Jeyne as well. You may have to reread that section. Ser Forley Prester sort of questions the order, but Jaime explains that she is still a danger as the Young Wolf's widow and better dead than fled.

2. Women and children being killed by Lannister guards? Have we been reading the same series. They would do it without question.

[Tini]

We might learn that Jeyne joined the Faith. She was still mourning Robb when she left Riverrun, and she had found out that her mother had not only made her drink moon tea after Rob died, but also given her moon tea during her marriage to Robb. By joining the Faith she can escape her mother, and her mother's plans, for good.

At any rate, we don't need a POV near Jeyne Westerling, wherever she goes, to find out what happened to her. She is potentially dangerous to little Tommen which is why Jaime doesn't want her to remarry for at least two years. The Lannisters will keep track of her, and we may learn more through reports sent to KL. Especially if Jeyne's mother continues plotting.

Lady Westerling was not happy about the marriage ban Jaime imposed on her daughter. She might go to King's Landing, and try to get it lifted. She was even less happy to find out what Tywin considered good matches for her children: Gerion Lannister's bastard daughter Joy Hill for her oldest son, Raynald. (I wonder what she expected when she was promised a bride from Casterly Rock for her son. Did she think that Tywin was offering Cersei?)

I think it quite possible that we'll see Jeyne at Raynald's wedding. Joy Hill is only 11 years old but that isn't a show stopper in Westeros. And Jaime or Cersei might actually attend their cousin's wedding, so we'd even have a POV present.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

At any rate, we don't need a POV near Jeyne Westerling, wherever she goes, to find out what happened to her. She is potentially dangerous to little Tommen which is why Jaime doesn't want her to remarry for at least two years. The Lannisters will keep track of her, and we may learn more through reports sent to KL. Especially if Jeyne's mother continues plotting.

Could not agree more. There are many ways we can learn of Jeyne's fate without having an important POV near her.

[aryagonnakill]

1. He did issue the order on Jeyne as well. You may have to reread that section. Ser Forley Prester sort of questions the order, but Jaime explains that she is still a danger as the Young Wolf's widow and better dead than fled.

2. Women and children being killed by Lannister guards? Have we been reading the same series. They would do it without question.

I guess I do need to reread that section, but yes we have. The book has taken the time to point out on several occasions that when vicious things are done they are normally done by especially brutal people. It would entirely depend upon the guard. If you recall book 2 when Tyrion is talking to Slynt, in the book he questions Slynt about his recommendations for his replacement and they talk about how the guy he got to do the baby was the right guy for the job, in the show they did it differently showing that the 1 guy couldn't do it. Point is the same, some young guy who isn't particularly brutal may try to run or fight rather than just kill a woman, some brutal and loyal lannister henchmen ya sure he might stab her without a thought.

[TKO]

I thought it was hinted that Pyatt Pree was killed by Euron. It mentions he encountered a group of warlocks and him killing the one that threatend him. Always assumed that was Pyatt because of his arrogance

[Slayer of Lies]

Could not agree more. There are many ways we can learn of Jeyne's fate without having an important POV near her.

Yes and no.

A few days ago, the possibilities were:

1) Jeyne shows up in a POV

2) We learn of Jeyne's fate through a POV

3) We never read another word about her

Thanks to GRRM's blog/comment, #3 is off the menu.

Furthermore, GRRM says that Jeyne has an "entirely different fate" than Talisa, and that we will "definitely hear more of Jeyne Westerling."

Of course this is wide open to reader interpretation, with some percentage of readers believing #1 and others #2.

On the surface, I take from it that she'll appear in a POV, for example, where I think you take from it that we'll learn of her fate through a POV without ever "seeing" her again.

Fair enough.

I guess all that's left is to tally the votes while we wait for TWOW to come out. :)

[Lord Davos Seaworth]

This is very good news for me.

I was quite concerned that events in the show lead to hints of what may or may not happen in the final books, but it seems GRRM is quite firm that they won't affect the books at all.

I wonder how the show will deal with something like Jeyne having Robb's heir, maybe have some bastard pop up of a random girl he laid with during his campaign...

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

I guess I do need to reread that section, but yes we have. The book has taken the time to point out on several occasions that when vicious things are done they are normally done by especially brutal people. It would entirely depend upon the guard. If you recall book 2 when Tyrion is talking to Slynt, in the book he questions Slynt about his recommendations for his replacement and they talk about how the guy he got to do the baby was the right guy for the job, in the show they did it differently showing that the 1 guy couldn't do it. Point is the same, some young guy who isn't particularly brutal may try to run or fight rather than just kill a woman, some brutal and loyal lannister henchmen ya sure he might stab her without a thought.

Thats my point. We are not talking about any old guards....we are talking about Lannister men. The same Lannsiter men who have raped, burned, and plundered the Riverlands into total devastation. Every since the fall of the Reynes and Tarbecks, there has been no disobedience from Western lords, save the Westerlings, but we know how that one turned out.

I have no doubts as to their killing Edmure and Jeyne, and neither should you.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

I thought it was hinted that Pyatt Pree was killed by Euron. It mentions he encountered a group of warlocks and him killing the one that threatend him. Always assumed that was Pyatt because of his arrogance

I had thought the same, but it seems he lives and has a bigger part to play yet. I wonder if he is with Victarian in disguise.

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

I don't think Jeyne is pregnant, but she is an ideal person to reveal details of the conspiracy behind the red wedding, including Bolton's involvementIt wouldn't surprise me if Manderly has her hidden away somewhere, as another string to his bow in the GNC theory.

[Ser Gareth]

It is 400...thanks for the correction on that point.

This is still a pretty large force that will be on guard. Can't see the BwB attacking a force this large, as they are more of a hit and run, guerilla warfare type of group. Additionally, any rescue attempt must occur before Prester reaches the Golden Tooth, at which point any hope of escape would be lost.

Personally, I think they will make it. I think the Blackfish's goals are guerilla warfare in the Riverlands and the eventual retaking of Riverrun. Jeyne and whatever role she has left can be taken care of at the Crag.

What about an extremely large pack of Wolves of the four legged furry kind? There has to be a reason this pack exists. I have always thought it will be to rip through a Wight army (and that is why it is demonstrated in ADWD that Wolves kill and still eat the Wights) but maybe they'll have other parts to play too.....

[aryagonnakill]

Thats my point. We are not talking about any old guards....we are talking about Lannister men. The same Lannsiter men who have raped, burned, and plundered the Riverlands into total devastation. Every since the fall of the Reynes and Tarbecks, there has been no disobedience from Western lords, save the Westerlings, but we know how that one turned out.

I have no doubts as to their killing Edmure and Jeyne, and neither should you.

Not every Lannister man has done those things. And if you will recall I only said hesitate. But at any rate what about Podrick Payne? He is a lannister man, what if he was ordered to kill an unarmed girl, you think he wouldn't hesitate? There are many people in the series who would not act as you say, you cannot blanket every man born in the westerlands as a rapist and murderer because of what Tywin Lannister ordered them to do during war. Davos is a loyal man to Stannis yet he let Edric get away, there are plenty of examples. Especially given the whole point of this thread, it seems we will hear more than crossbow bolt in the head. Another example is the Westerling who let Greywind go defying his families orders.