Stannis Baratheons next move.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

The north turning on Stannis is an incredibly overblown notion. Save for the Boltons I don't think there's a more honorable region in all of Westeros then, I find it hard to believe after he potentially retrieves their liege-lord, saved the night's watch from complete rout/annihilation at the Battle of the Wall, defeats the bastard traitors Bolton/Frey, that the north would then betray him. I think after all that goodwill he will have earned some loyalty. I think the ruination of the Blackwater forsook the south forever for Stannis though, whether he knows it or not, his true war lies in the north and he's the only king or lord who could see that. Demon's made of snow and ice and cold...the ancient enemy. The only enemy that matters. My hope is that he frees the north then leads it against the others. But who knows its GRRM maybe he'll die after eating a donut hole before the battle starts.

I agree 100% about this, and not to mention that you'd think The Northmen, of all people in Westeros, would realize there's no pointing in risking yet another war, when they've already lost most of their fighting men as the result of the Red Wedding as is, with fucking winter coming. That whole element of that theory never added up to me, and I'm not just saying that because of my Stannis fan bias, I say it more because I really don't think the Northmen are that petty.

[The Drunkard]

Im so fucking anxious to find out.

Only a few more years to go. :devil:

Stannis will be killed by his own men and his naked body will be dragged on a horse along the streets of King's Landing a la Richard III because it's been over a decade since Martin last tasted some fresh fan tears.

That would be just heartbreaking.

[Oblivian]

If the GNC is right, the Northern lords may use that fleet that Manderly has in White Harbor to send Stannis to take out the Lannisters. A Battle of the Blackwater 2.0 with a different result would get rid of Stannis and eliminate the Lannisters in one move. Then they declare independence and make Rickon the King in the North.

[Jon Flowers]

I haven't had time to read the thread, but in response to the OP, what jumps out at me is the fact that Stannis has largely lost his mobility along with Sallador Saan and his fleet. The only remedy for this situation would have to be his coming to terms with Lord Manderly. To this end, I think that his only real option is to follow up his victory over Lord Bolton by pursuing any significant personages or military elements that escape him and following this, to consolidate his hold on the North by reducing any remaining opposition held strongholds and even more importantly, to pursue any and all possible alliances (like that with White Harbor for instance).

If given the choice, the new bolder Stannis may indeed have been inclined to more dynamic action, but the loss of his hired fleet seems to me, to force him back into prudence and conservatism, at least until that fleet can be replaced that is.

[little cup]

Assuming Stannis is victorious and is able to consolidate the North into some form of a stable alliance. He will make a final attempt to convince the South of the threat of the WW. Northern emissaries to the Vale, perhaps?

[Ampelisca]

Go to the Iron Islands and install Asha as Lady Paramount. With her ships he can lay siege to KL once again.

I agree with this the first assertion, except he takes Theon- after the Freys and Manderleys show up but before Ramsey.

Davos and Manderley finish the siege of Winterfel after Stannis tricks Ramsey into pressing north.

Stannis and his core take Theon to Dagmer Cleftjaw at Torrhen’s square and sail to Ten Towers on Harlaw. Theon is reunited with his Mom (long overdue) and Rodrick Harlaw (if he is back) or DCJ give Stannis the aid he needs to liberate Seagard.

At this time, the Twins will be lightly held. The bulk of the family and army at Riverrun for “the wedding” and the rest in the North (dead) or perusing outlaws (probably dead).

Stannis, the ironborn available to him, Jason Mallister and possibly the Blackfish will make the short march to the twins and bring it to heel, freeing all the captives. They will all swear him as their King- the northerns head north to help with the siege/problems at the wall, the riverlanders stay with Stannis et al. and go where he goes.

[Toxspecific]

If he is going to be some leader of a destructive inhuman force wouldn't his goal just be to destroy the humans, not really to become their king?

And wow are people still saying Stannis has strong faith in the red God? And to me, the whole Northmen will turn n Stannis and kill him is similarly another ridiculous way for Stannis haters to fantasise about him dying and try to make it look realistic. The Northmen are established as being honourable and having a firm sense of justice and revenge. Stannis is helping them get justice and revenge and they turn on him and attack him, thus dooming both his and their own personal objectives? How strategically stupid is that, and uncharacteristic besides.

[Minidirewolf]

The only northern Lord who can side with Stannis is Manderly. House Frey still has the Greatjon and other hostages.

[Steinnis]

If Stannis somehow makes it South, with the NW back in order etc. I can see him trying to rouse the Vale lords, I'd say men like Bronze Yohn would join him, and most of the other Vale lords would probably follow. Just throwing it out there, since the north has already been discussed. Where exactly are Stannis' sellswords supposed to meet him?

[mrlukeduke]

What's working against Stannis, despite what he's done or doing for the North are:

• Wrong god / red witch.
  
• No male heir.
  
• Stubborn as f**k.
  

That's why I think he'll end up being ignored by or even expelled from the North once they have their precious Stark back in Winterfell. If the GNC is really working its magic, and if it's more than a Stark lord they want (either a KitN or a King Jon of Westeros), then Stannis is in the way.

[Toxspecific]

What's working against Stannis, despite what he's done or doing for the North are:

• Wrong god / red witch.
  
• No male heir.
  
• Stubborn as f**k.
  

That's why I think he'll end up being ignored by or even expelled from the North once they have their precious Stark back in Winterfell. If the GNC is really working its magic, and if it's more than a Stark lord they want (either a KitN or a King Jon of Westeros), then Stannis is in the way.

He is not stubborn anymore. Why does everyone take him to be the same guy he was so many books ago? It's like all his development as a leader for a war campaign is ignored, and that is something I cannot stand.

Stannis took Jon Snow's council, did he not? Ad if he was stubborn, he would never even have looked at Melisandre twice; she comes to a serious, realistic dude like Stannis talking about a red god and red fai and stuff like that, if Stanns was indeed so stubborn he would not have given a crap aout her and would have tossed her ideas out the window as soon as he heard the red god stuff.

Stannis is at more flexible as a leader now, and that is why he is still alive. And this whole the Northmen will turn on him, I refuse to explain why it is out of character for them to do so and why it is very unlikely. We have explained it many times, if to still hold on to the idea then go ahead.

[Minidirewolf]

I take it you didn't read the Winds of Winter Theon chapter. One of the Umbers has already left Winterfell after setting up the death of Aenys Frey. And the Freys won't do awning to their hostages if they have no way of knowing what is going down in the North.

It is only a matter of time though, before they do. What then? Just one raven can spell disaster for the Umbers or any other house with hostages.

I'll say the Northernmen will march to the Twins next, with or without Stannis.

If they won, that is.

Edited to add last line

[Toxspecific]

It is only a matter of time though, before they do. What then? Just one raven can spell disaster for the Umbers or any other house with hostages.

I'll say the Northernmen will march to the Twins next, with or without Stannis.

If they won, that is.

Edited to add last line

Lol dude, the Umbers ave already committed 'treachery' against Bolton, they aren't going to go 'omg I am sorry' if a letter is sent to the Freys.

[RedLantern]

Regarding the Northern hostages, remember that Jamie has commanded they be turned over to the throne en mass. If they're being transported from The Twins any time soon, there's a few outlaws who might see it as a nice opportunity to cause some bother...

I'm in full agreement that the upcoming battle will end with the Frey forces at the bottom of the lake, and it also seems likely that Stannis and Manderly will take Winterfell. After that we're into heavy speculation, but my thoughts on where he goes from here are -

Turns back to stop whatever madness is happening at the Wall, probably too late to prevent it being totally compromised.

Again finds himself in the position of having to hold together a hopeless defence against overwhelming odds when the Others come South, maybe even at Winterfell this time.

Now, for some REALLY long speculation -

I think that the war against the Others will eventually be broken by some combination of Dany, Jon and Dragons, but I think Stannis will survive to the end. It's what he does.

I think he'll be prepared to give up his claim once confronted by a Targ heir of one kind or another; although especially Jon as he already knows his worth. One of the things that make me such a big fan of Stannis is his Lawful Neutral views; he doesn't WANT to be King, he just IS the king and has to get on with it. When he's put in a position where he can be satisfied that he isn't, he'll give it up without fuss.

Which leaves him, I would say, in his perfect position - 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, charged with rebuilding the Watch and the Wall for the day when the Others will inevitably return again...

[Minidirewolf]

Lol dude, the Umbers ave already committed 'treachery' against Bolton, they aren't going to go 'omg I am sorry' if a letter is sent to the Freys.

Too bad then. Greatjon has always been my favorite bannerman.

All I'm saying is the Northmen will prioritize their kin over Stannis' plans. All the more reason that they already set a plan in motion.

[DExit]

Whatever, even in dying Stannis Ba-FU*KING-ratheon will be ten times as awesome as any other character in the books. Hell, if George lets him lose, he just wrote it down the wrong way, cause Stannis is already the winner of this series!

Nothing of the crap the stan-haters spray around like a cancer on this site can change that!

All men shall bow to him :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: Long shall he reign!

BTW, having the feeling things are over-analysed on this Forum, will be a lurker till WOW- or shall we call it 'all hail Stannis'- comes out.

pease, DExit out.

[SkaggCannibal]

I think that the war against the Others will eventually be broken by some combination of Dany, Jon and Dragons, but I think Stannis will survive to the end. It's what he does.

I think he'll be prepared to give up his claim once confronted by a Targ heir of one kind or another; although especially Jon as he already knows his worth. One of the things that make me such a big fan of Stannis is his Lawful Neutral views; he doesn't WANT to be King, he just IS the king and has to get on with it. When he's put in a position where he can be satisfied that he isn't, he'll give it up without fuss.

Which leaves him, I would say, in his perfect position - 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, charged with rebuilding the Watch and the Wall for the day when the Others will inevitably return again...

No he won't give up being king without fuss. He is Roberts heir, he has a duty towards him, towards his daughter, towards the realm. If any Targaryen wants to take Westeros back, it will have to be over his cold death body.

[Toxspecific]

Regarding the Northern hostages, remember that Jamie has commanded they be turned over to the throne en mass. If they're being transported from The Twins any time soon, there's a few outlaws who might see it as a nice opportunity to cause some bother...

I'm in full agreement that the upcoming battle will end with the Frey forces at the bottom of the lake, and it also seems likely that Stannis and Manderly will take Winterfell. After that we're into heavy speculation, but my thoughts on where he goes from here are -

Turns back to stop whatever madness is happening at the Wall, probably too late to prevent it being totally compromised.

Again finds himself in the position of having to hold together a hopeless defence against overwhelming odds when the Others come South, maybe even at Winterfell this time.

Now, for some REALLY long speculation -

I think that the war against the Others will eventually be broken by some combination of Dany, Jon and Dragons, but I think Stannis will survive to the end. It's what he does.

I think he'll be prepared to give up his claim once confronted by a Targ heir of one kind or another; although especially Jon as he already knows his worth. One of the things that make me such a big fan of Stannis is his Lawful Neutral views; he doesn't WANT to be King, he just IS the king and has to get on with it. When he's put in a position where he can be satisfied that he isn't, he'll give it up without fuss.

Which leaves him, I would say, in his perfect position - 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, charged with rebuilding the Watch and the Wall for the day when the Others will inevitably return again...

This post was going fine until you said Stannis would bend to a Targaryen heir.

Dude, what the hell? Stannis will bend to someone who is not a Baratheon, someone from a family he helped bring down and by no way in hell has any members coming before him in any succession criteria?

Wtf do people hold onto this ridiculous belief.

[RedLantern]

I just think the situation will change his point of view. We already know that he struggled with the decision to rebel in the first place, if a Targ proves themselves defender of the realm by turning back the Others he might change his position again.

Also, hints about the mortality of greyscale and the ever worsening situation at The Wall could easily leave him without a wife or heir by the time we're done, if holding onto the throne in the name of his lineage is a factor for him.

Like I said, anything we discuss is crazy speculation at this point. I just feel that 1000th Lord Commander of the Watch is the perfect ending for the most dutiful man in the story. And this way he doesn't have to die!

[SkaggCannibal]

I just think the situation will change his point of view. We already know that he struggled with the decision to rebel in the first place, if a Targ proves themselves defender of the realm by turning back the Others he might change his position again.

Also, hints about the mortality of greyscale and the ever worsening situation at The Wall could easily leave him without a wife or heir by the time we're done, if holding onto the throne in the name of his lineage is a factor for him.

Like I said, anything we discuss is crazy speculation at this point. I just feel that 1000th Lord Commander of the Watch is the perfect ending for the most dutiful man in the story. And this way he doesn't have to die!

I'd rather have him stay true to his character and die than giving up on what he believes in. Whoever saves the realm doesn't become Roberts heir. Stannis will give the savior a sufficient reward, but won't make him king. Stannis remains the heir untill his last breath, even without heirs of his own. I don't think he will join the Night's Watch, he would be an excellent leader yes, but he would sooner die than give up his right. And I gues in the end he will die.