Sansa's fate.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Sisterhood of the Lemon Cake. :P

Either way, its gonna be interesting to see what happens in Sansa's arc. I wish tWoW would hurry up.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I think Shadrich (the Mad Mouse) who was hired by Littlefinger will somehow discover she is the Stark girl wanted by the Queen and will abduct her and try to take her to King's Landing.

No one else buys this theory?

[Kittykatknits]

Sisterhood of the Lemon Cake. :P

Either way, its gonna be interesting to see what happens in Sansa's arc. I wish tWoW would hurry up.

I wish it would too, for a lot of reasons, not just Sansa.

No one else buys this theory?

I don't think it's that. Many wonder how the Mad Mouse will play in to her storyline. Just not sure that would equate to controversy either.

[Wouter]

Because it's ASOIAF and because GRRM told us that we are going to get a bittersweet ending. What's more bittersweet than losing another Stark child?

Losing another Stark would just be bitter, not bittersweet. GRRM cites as Lord of the Rings as example of bittersweet ending, and none of the (main) hobbits perished there. In contrast, he has already killed off scores of Starks and their closest supporters. Between Ned, Catelyn, Robb and probably Benjen the Stark losses have been stiff even before the horrendous losses among their soldiers/servants etc are factored in.

The Starks have been losing badly, at some time there has to come a time for wolves.

As for your prediction for Sansa's future (post #71), I have one problem with that. I expect LF to be aware of Dany and to take her coming into account (allthough he wouldn't count on Tyrion being there, also). I don't see him ending up on the opposite side of Dany, not until Sansa and/or Tyrion have had opportunity to do something to warn and turn her against him.

I also doubt Harry would turn out to be an outright villain; he may turn out to be like Robert but outright villainy seems a bit much for someone who is apparently held in some esteem by Yohn Royce.

If I see any of the characters travelling down a dark path and committing to it in tWoW, they are definitely Tyrion and Dany.

Tyrion already went down a dark path in ADWD and looked to have started the way up again, after he started to cooperate with Penny. It looks unlikely he would regress in TWOW, allthough the eventual confrontation with the Lannisters has great potential to be ugly for Tyrion.

[Wouter]

oh okay. I just thought that "lemon cake fans" could be a term for a subgroup of Sansa fans (e.g. specifically SanSan shippers or something like that).

What about fans of actual "lemon cakes"? Isn't there a website that has a recipe for them?

Knowing GRRM, we could get half a chapter of descriptions of the finer intricacies of lemon cakes (didn't Sansa promise a mountain of them to SR?). Which would also be controversial for parts of the fandom (not that those comments have to be linked). :)

[Wouter]

I think Shadrich (the Mad Mouse) who was hired by Littlefinger will somehow discover she is the Stark girl wanted by the Queen and will abduct her and try to take her to King's Landing.

Shadrich's presence is obviously meant to make us fear that very move, but the problem for Shadrich is that it would be extremely difficult to smuggle a living Sansa out of the Vale. Due to winter and the (well-armed) mountain clans, he cannot go overland so he'd have to find a boat and accomplices. And first he has to capture Sansa and smuggle her out of the Gates of the Moon. Seems like a really high-risk operation, and it maybe better for Shadrich to just stick to LF for the time being.

Shadrich will play a role in this storyline though, possibly by betraying Sansa's identity to someone at a crucial point.

[Dany Girl]

Shadrich's presence is obviously meant to make us fear that very move, but the problem for Shadrich is that it would be extremely difficult to smuggle a living Sansa out of the Vale. Due to winter and the (well-armed) mountain clans, he cannot go overland so he'd have to find a boat and accomplices. And first he has to capture Sansa and smuggle her out of the Gates of the Moon. Seems like a really high-risk operation, and it maybe better for Shadrich to just stick to LF for the time being.

Shadrich will play a role in this storyline though, possibly by betraying Sansa's identity to someone at a crucial point.

do we even know where his loyalties lie? He seems to be kinda a lowky hedge knight and they seem to be hanging with BwB a lot. He very well could be one of the Brotherhood sent to watch LF since he's with LS's only living family(that she knows of). His purpose could be spying for them (they have spys all around, see: Tom O'Seven Strings). Would be cool if he kills LF for Sansa. This is crackpot. Feel free to shoot it down. I just don't recall if we know where his loyalties are.

[Petyr Patter]

do we even know where his loyalties lie? He seems to be kinda a lowky hedge knight and they seem to be hanging with BwB a lot. He very well could be one of the Brotherhood sent to watch LF since he's with LS's only living family(that she knows of). His purpose could be spying for them (they have spys all around, see: Tom O'Seven Strings). Would be cool if he kills LF for Sansa. This is crackpot. Feel free to shoot it down. I just don't recall if we know where his loyalties are.

There probably should be a rule of "1 or 3." A character might show up once in the story, and then go away. However, if they show up two times, there will always be a third. We know almost nothing about Shadrich. He claims he is a hedge knight who paid a ruinous ransom after fighting for Stannis at the Blackwater. He tells Brienne he is looking for Sansa as well to sell her to Varys. Then, he ends up in Littlefinger's service in the Vale. He also has a very, very forward way of speaking. Usually referencing how he is "Big where it counts," despite otherwise being short.

He could be exactly what he said he is, but then, he appeared somewhere else. That doesn't happen unless he is more than what he seems.

I will raise your crackpot theory with one my own: He's Hoster's Tully's bastard, possibly by Tansy, the "innkeep" in Stoney Sept.

• While going senile on his deathbed, Hoster kept bringing up "Tansy," which Catelyn first things is a women's name, but no one at Riverrun recognizes it. However, its later implied that Hoster was thinking of the flower, which is a key component in moon tea, an abortive. Hoster had it fed to Lysa to kill Littlefinger's child. However...
  
• Arya while traveling with the Brotherhood without Banners, meets a Tansy innkeeper. She is red headed, and runs a brothel in the Stoney Sept. Did she work the "beds" before coming a manager? Did Hoster have a "favorite" inn while away from Riverrun? Did he seek out an "expert" while brewing the tea for Lysa? Or, something else?
  
• Hoster Tully was wounded during the Battle of the Bells, is this when he met Tansy for the first time? Actually, that would probably make Shadrich to young, but I don't think his age has been given.
  
• She has red hair, Shadrich red hair.
  
• Shadrich's arms have blue and brown waves, for lands and rivers he's crossed. Is he from the Riverlands?
  
• Actually, his sigil reads like an inverted Tully Sigil. Brown and blue instead of red and blue. A mouse (with red! eyes, the missing Tully color). Remember, its traditional for bastards to invert their father's arms.
  
• He claims he's from "Shady Glen," but I can't find any Shady Glen except when referenced from him. Peach trees make a "Shady Glen"?
  
• Somebody gave him his training, his armor, and his horse. Was this Hoster taking care of his bastard, quitely, where it wouldn't threaten his "real" family?
  

Now, this doesn't preclude him from working for the brotherhood, or for Varys. The Peach was a essentially a Brotherhood safehouse, in addition to being a brotherl. But, if he is Hoster's bastard, that makes him Sansa's "half-uncle." Is he trying to be true to the family words, "Family, Duty, Honor"?

[bimbin]

welcome, I think that when Sansa lost Lady, it meant that she will never return to the North again. Her identity will become something else.

Absolutely! In fact, she is already someone else. Alayne Stone. IMO she will remain a Stone. As Alayne Stone, the natural daughter of someboby,

she is an acceptable match for Sandor Clegane.

[Kittykatknits]

Losing another Stark would just be bitter, not bittersweet. GRRM cites as Lord of the Rings as example of bittersweet ending, and none of the (main) hobbits perished there. In contrast, he has already killed off scores of Starks and their closest supporters. Between Ned, Catelyn, Robb and probably Benjen the Stark losses have been stiff even before the horrendous losses among their soldiers/servants etc are factored in.

The Starks have been losing badly, at some time there has to come a time for wolves.

As for your prediction for Sansa's future (post #71), I have one problem with that. I expect LF to be aware of Dany and to take her coming into account (allthough he wouldn't count on Tyrion being there, also). I don't see him ending up on the opposite side of Dany, not until Sansa and/or Tyrion have had opportunity to do something to warn and turn her against him.

I also doubt Harry would turn out to be an outright villain; he may turn out to be like Robert but outright villainy seems a bit much for someone who is apparently held in some esteem by Yohn Royce.

Tyrion already went down a dark path in ADWD and looked to have started the way up again, after he started to cooperate with Penny. It looks unlikely he would regress in TWOW, allthough the eventual confrontation with the Lannisters has great potential to be ugly for Tyrion.

I don't think he'll be a villian either. Actually, I expect he'll come across as a decent person. If he's a villian, that would make LF's plans an easy thing to accept.

What about fans of actual "lemon cakes"? Isn't there a website that has a recipe for them?

Knowing GRRM, we could get half a chapter of descriptions of the finer intricacies of lemon cakes (didn't Sansa promise a mountain of them to SR?). Which would also be controversial for parts of the fandom (not that those comments have to be linked). :)

There is a recipe for them in the ice and fire cookbook but I've never made them. There was also a thread on this topic a year ago or so. And, yes, she promised them to SR.

[Raksha the Demon]

As soon as I saw the word "controversy" I thought "sex scene." :ack: Let's hope I'm very wrong.

The "controversy" could be Sansa's complicity in the poisoning of SweetRobin. Right now (her last chapter in ASoIaF) she is straddling a dubious moral line, knowing that the Maester said that repeatedly dosing the kid with sweetsleep was bad for him and yet justifying it for the sake of the lordship that SweetRobin holds and represents because Littlefinger said so; without apparently understanding that her and Littlefinger's actions could kill the boy (or perhaps she does understand on some level but is deluding herself). If Sansa does come to consciously understand that Littlefinger wants her cousin dead and she continues to aid him in dosing the boy, then that would be very controversial (unless it is later revealed that Sansa is trying to look for a way out of the situation, both for herself and SweetRobin, to keep them both safe).

Or it could be a scene where Sansa allows Littlefinger to do more than kiss her, in some detail, for the purpose of gaining more power over him. Ick-ack. I hope not.

[Le Cygne]

I last read a Sansa chapter back in 2005, can't believe I'll have been waiting for an entire decade to find out what comes next.

Wow, nearly 10 years for the next part of the story. Must be one hell of a story that we're still wondering what happens next. :)

If only he'd kept that chapter in the last book (at least Brienne fans got a little something to go on in the last book, and I do mean little). I think the "controversial" chapter is the same one he said Sansa fans would like, and it's probably bad news for Littlefinger.

[Kittykatknits]

Wow, nearly 10 years for the next part of the story. Must be one hell of a story that we're still wondering what happens next. :)

If only he'd kept that chapter in the last book (at least Brienne fans got a little something to go on in the last book, and I do mean little). I think the "controversial" chapter is the same one he said Sansa fans would like, and it's probably bad news for Littlefinger.

I would totally love this! Maybe the controversy is with the methods Sansa uses then?

[Le Cygne]

I would totally love this! Maybe the controversy is with the methods Sansa uses then?

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. Nothing to do with Sweetrobin, more like that moment when she smashed the doll's head onto the spike.

[Kittykatknits]

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. Nothing to do with Sweetrobin, more like that moment when she smashed the doll's head onto the spike.

Hmm, so maybe something more violent than we have seen in the past?

[Petyr Patter]

Maybe she slips "Strangler" into the wine for an entire dinner of Littlefinger supporters and allies. While he dies choking watching his great plans crash and burn, she says the most important lesson of the game of thrones she learned from Joffrey when he ordered her father dead: all it takes is one impulsive lunatic to ruin the careful schemers.

This would be really sweet if Littlefinger "persuaded" Joffrey to call for Ned's death, teaching Sansa the real lesson to beat him without realizing it.

[Le Cygne]

Hmm, so maybe something more violent than we have seen in the past?

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. A mad rage seized hold of her. Where did that come from? I think we're going to see. Sweetrobin is going to help her in some subtle way.

And then there's Myranda Royce. How little is it? Best line ever. And she said Sansa must tell her the wicked things she wants to do. And the unkiss came up twice in that chapter.

There's got to be payoff for all of that setup, right? Because that last chapter was pure setup.

[Kittykatknits]

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. A mad rage seized hold of her. Where did that come from? I think we're going to see. Sweetrobin is going to help her in some subtle way.

And then there's Myranda Royce. How little is it? Best line ever. And she said Sansa must tell her the wicked things she wants to do. And the unkiss came up twice in that chapter.

There's got to be payoff for all of that setup, right? Because that last chapter was pure setup.

It's one of the best and most frustrating. We got hints for Arya, Cersei, Jaime, Brienne. But nothing for her, I have a feeling it's going to be big. Since Martin pushed it back, I think he wanted her whole storyline given at once.

I also don't think SR is going to die.

[Dany Girl]

There probably should be a rule of "1 or 3." A character might show up once in the story, and then go away. However, if they show up two times, there will always be a third. We know almost nothing about Shadrich. He claims he is a hedge knight who paid a ruinous ransom after fighting for Stannis at the Blackwater. He tells Brienne he is looking for Sansa as well to sell her to Varys. Then, he ends up in Littlefinger's service in the Vale. He also has a very, very forward way of speaking. Usually referencing how he is "Big where it counts," despite otherwise being short.

He could be exactly what he said he is, but then, he appeared somewhere else. That doesn't happen unless he is more than what he seems.

I will raise your crackpot theory with one my own: He's Hoster's Tully's bastard, possibly by Tansy, the "innkeep" in Stoney Sept.

• While going senile on his deathbed, Hoster kept bringing up "Tansy," which Catelyn first things is a women's name, but no one at Riverrun recognizes it. However, its later implied that Hoster was thinking of the flower, which is a key component in moon tea, an abortive. Hoster had it fed to Lysa to kill Littlefinger's child. However...
  
• Arya while traveling with the Brotherhood without Banners, meets a Tansy innkeeper. She is red headed, and runs a brothel in the Stoney Sept. Did she work the "beds" before coming a manager? Did Hoster have a "favorite" inn while away from Riverrun? Did he seek out an "expert" while brewing the tea for Lysa? Or, something else?
  
• Hoster Tully was wounded during the Battle of the Bells, is this when he met Tansy for the first time? Actually, that would probably make Shadrich to young, but I don't think his age has been given.
  
• She has red hair, Shadrich red hair.
  
• Shadrich's arms have blue and brown waves, for lands and rivers he's crossed. Is he from the Riverlands?
  
• Actually, his sigil reads like an inverted Tully Sigil. Brown and blue instead of red and blue. A mouse (with red! eyes, the missing Tully color). Remember, its traditional for bastards to invert their father's arms.
  
• He claims he's from "Shady Glen," but I can't find any Shady Glen except when referenced from him. Peach trees make a "Shady Glen"?
  
• Somebody gave him his training, his armor, and his horse. Was this Hoster taking care of his bastard, quitely, where it wouldn't threaten his "real" family?
  

Now, this doesn't preclude him from working for the brotherhood, or for Varys. The Peach was a essentially a Brotherhood safehouse, in addition to being a brotherl. But, if he is Hoster's bastard, that makes him Sansa's "half-uncle." Is he trying to be true to the family words, "Family, Duty, Honor"?

I fully support and back this crackpottery :D in fact, him being a Hoster bastard that Hoster recognized (at least to Shadrick, not to the level of Ned/Jon), then him hooking up with the LS run Brotherhood (family, duty, honor after all) or possibly BF (heck, I'll even support him as a BF bastard) and after hearing rumors of LF's bastard in the veil them he goes to investigate and save her.

[voodooqueen126]

I think on the basis of season 3, all of the complexity, the strength of character that we see in Sansa's character arc in the book was just accidental. GRRM did not mean anything by the complexity and flashes of strength that he gave book Sansa, otherwise he would not have allowed the show to make Sansa both weak and sweet.*

Also the show edited out her religiosity, which had the potential to make her strong like Margaret Beaufort.

*in the wrong places: book Sansa would never have been rude to her Septa, but book 3 Sansa would not have been so foolish as to be so charming to Tyrion after their marriage.