Similarities between Jaime and Jon

[The Wolves]

It gives me hives to see my most loved character(Jon)being in any way compared to my most hated character(Jamie)

[The Great Walrus]

It gives me hives to see my most loved character(Jon)being in any way compared to my most hated character(Jamie)

You and me both.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

No.

this

In the future, Jon will have relations with his sister, Dany.

Dany is his aunt not sister

[Nephenee]

Then why did Jaime burn the letter when his only love needed him the most?

That surely apply to Jon, but not to Jaime. Saving the Beauty is a single drop in a dark ocean of misdeeds.

Either to sleep with the girl or to blow his cover. Jaime faced no such dilemma.

Jon acted that way thanks to the shitty advice Ty gave him. Unlike Jaime, it wasn't his true nature.

Yes, reckless is the proper word.

:stillsick: Any signs on Jaime's side?

But while Jon earned his position, Jaime got his only thanks to nepotism.

Jon's hand is a mark of honor, Jaime's hand is a mark of shame.

But only Jaime deserves it.

Jon ascended because of his leading skills, Jaime because of political tension between his father and the king.

"Blah blah blah I hate Jaime" sums up your entire post.

Jaime, after his redemption and growth in maturity as a result, realized that Cersei was a piece of shit, and that is why he burned the letter.

[Blede]

Actually this is not a stupid thread. I always saw Jaime and Jon as linked, though not as the OP intended. Let me explain.

They started as the opposite sides of the same coin, foils to each other (the warrior trope, one honorable and good, the other a scumbag), like Cersei and Catelyn are the two sides of the mother trope. One is the bastard, will never inherit anything, the other is the beloved heir to the great lord. They both join a sworn brotherhood but have opposite career:

-Before his arrival at Castle Black, Jon was disillusioned, pissed, a jerk. But after some time, he started taking his organization seriously, and grew to respect it and its ideals

-Jaime, on the other hand, started in awe of the amazing Kingsguard, he finally got to serve with his idols, at court, this is perfect... only to see that it was in service to a madman, who only indicted him to spite his father. And he became the disillusioned jerk Jon started as.

Then a war starts (the War against Mance and the Others for Jon, the War of the Five Kings for Jaime).

-Both go to fight.

-Both end up captured by their enemy.

-Both are sent on a mission by said enemy.

-Both suffer a great loss (Ygritte, his love, for Jon, and the sword hand, his identity, for Jaime).

-Both return back to their base (Castle Black, and King's Landing)

Here things get interesting. Jaime starts to change, but the parallels between him and Jon continue.

-Both are given by other people the leadership of their brotherhood (Samwell schemes to make Jon Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, Cersei names Jaime Lord Commander of the Kingsguard)

-Both send their former enemy and captor on a mission to free one of the Stark sisters (Jon sends Mance to free "Arya", Jaime sends Brienne to find Sansa and keep her safe)

While this happens, Jaime's personality is becoming more and more Jon-like (honorable, keeps his vows, curbs his recklessness, holds his tongue) while Jon becomes more and more Jaime-like (jaded, is seen as not caring what other people think, mocks people in his thoughts).

Even the last thing happening for them is similar. Both receive a message telling that their Stark girl rescue mission is on the brink of failing just as it was succeeding.

-Ramsay's letter says that "Arya" and Reek escaped, but Ramsay has defeated Stannis and is going to march on the Wall to get his bride back

-Brienne says that she has found Sansa, but the Hound has her and is going to kill her

This prompts both of them to abruptly abandon his vows and brotherhood (temporarily, they think) to personally save their Stark girl.

Now, Jon gets stabbed by his brothers (those he showed contempt for and that hate him) for trying to do that (or maybe just to stop the Watch's "new course"). Does that mean that Jaime's not much beloved brothers (specifically ser Boros Blount, ser Meryn Trant and ser Osmund Kettleblack) are going/are plotting to kill him ?

Thoughts ?

[Groat]

snip

That is awesome! I love it. There was a thread the other day talking about Jon and Jaime meeting, and essentially a lot of people agree that Jaime's arc is heading towards Jon's, potentially being Jon's Kingsguard, but excellent parallels.

[Father of Hosts]

snip

You, sir/ma'am, have blown my mind. Well done.

[Dana Holland]

A life is a life ....ones not worth more than an other. Jamies reasons for pushing bran out a window weren't for the kids at all he disldnt give two shits about them

[The Angels' Prophet]

Actually this is not a stupid thread. I always saw Jaime and Jon as linked, though not as the OP intended. Let me explain.

They started as the opposite sides of the same coin, foils to each other (the warrior trope, one honorable and good, the other a scumbag), like Cersei and Catelyn are the two sides of the mother trope. One is the bastard, will never inherit anything, the other is the beloved heir to the great lord. They both join a sworn brotherhood but have opposite career:

-Before his arrival at Castle Black, Jon was disillusioned, pissed, a jerk. But after some time, he started taking his organization seriously, and grew to respect it and its ideals

-Jaime, on the other hand, started in awe of the amazing Kingsguard, he finally got to serve with his idols, at court, this is perfect... only to see that it was in service to a madman, who only indicted him to spite his father. And he became the disillusioned jerk Jon started as.

Then a war starts (the War against Mance and the Others for Jon, the War of the Five Kings for Jaime).

-Both go to fight.

-Both end up captured by their enemy.

-Both are sent on a mission by said enemy.

-Both suffer a great loss (Ygritte, his love, for Jon, and the sword hand, his identity, for Jaime).

-Both return back to their base (Castle Black, and King's Landing)

Here things get interesting. Jaime starts to change, but the parallels between him and Jon continue.

-Both are given by other people the leadership of their brotherhood (Samwell schemes to make Jon Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, Cersei names Jaime Lord Commander of the Kingsguard)

-Both send their former enemy and captor on a mission to free one of the Stark sisters (Jon sends Mance to free "Arya", Jaime sends Brienne to find Sansa and keep her safe)

While this happens, Jaime's personality is becoming more and more Jon-like (honorable, keeps his vows, curbs his recklessness, holds his tongue) while Jon becomes more and more Jaime-like (jaded, is seen as not caring what other people think, mocks people in his thoughts).

Even the last thing happening for them is similar. Both receive a message telling that their Stark girl rescue mission is on the brink of failing just as it was succeeding.

-Ramsay's letter says that "Arya" and Reek escaped, but Ramsay has defeated Stannis and is going to march on the Wall to get his bride back

-Brienne says that she has found Sansa, but the Hound has her and is going to kill her

This prompts both of them to abruptly abandon his vows and brotherhood (temporarily, they think) to personally save their Stark girl.

Now, Jon gets stabbed by his brothers (those he showed contempt for and that hate him) for trying to do that (or maybe just to stop the Watch's "new course"). Does that mean that Jaime's not much beloved brothers (specifically ser Boros Blount, ser Meryn Trant and ser Osmund Kettleblack) are going/are plotting to kill him ?

Thoughts ?

Brilliant, I say! Well said.

On the note of the topic, however I've noticed people who think Jaime is a bad person has almost always been backed up by the fact that he crippled Bran, even though he has: 1. Paid for it with the loss of his hand, and 2. Had justified reasons for doing it that posters have pointed out.

I can understand that people can hate Jaime, I have no problem with that, but why do people think he's still a thoroughly bad person?

[Nephenee]

I've noticed people who think Jaime is a bad person has almost always been backed up by the fact that he crippled Bran, even though he has: 1. Paid for it with the loss of his hand, and 2. Had justified reasons for doing it that posters have pointed out.

Thank you.

And yes, Blede, brilliant post. I wish I had thought of that. I'll go ahead and link your post in my first post.

[Blede]

You, sir/ma'am, have blown my mind. Well done.

Sir.

Anyway, another parallel.

Jon built his life around being the bastard son of Eddard Stark, and joined the Night's Watch because of this.

Jaime built his life around his love for Cersei (and her love for him), and joined the Kingsguard because of this.

Jaime's assumption was shattered when he found out that Cersei had sex with Lancel, Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all he knows. His reaction was to focus more and more on his duties as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and trying to strictly adhere to the ideals of the brotherhood.

If what many think is revealed to be true (I'm talking about R+L=J) then Jon's reason for joining the Night's Watch, as well as the pillar of his life, will be shattered as well. There was a thread not long ago about Jon's reaction when he finds out this. Could he have a reaction similar to Jaime's (endlessly thinking "I'm not Ned Stark's" and focusing more on his duties) or continue his Jaimification process (ie stopping caring about his vows, becoming more and more a jerk) and end the series as it had become, as Jaime's opposite, but with their positions swapped ?

Now I enter the realm of wild guesses. His Jaimification process could go as far as forsaking his Night's Watch vows, marrying Daenerys (fulfilling his "Jaime incest quota"), and becoming King, not the just king everyone thinks though, but an early Jaime-like scumbag king (with thoughts as "Eddard Stark would never do that. Hells, why should I care ? I'm not a Stark, after all.")

Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne after killing Aerys could foreshadow just that, a Jaime-like Jon becoming king after killing the previous holder (Tommen ? Myrcella ? Aegon ?), and we all know Daenerys likes bad boys (with the additional irony of her marrying someone who's just like the hated Kingslayer, the man who killed her father).

That would be an incredibly bittersweet ending.

[Northbound]

Well of course they can't be similar until the inevitable Jon/Sansa ship comes to fruition.

*Also sarcasm

Lol Walrus needs to work for TMZ!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Why are Jaime and Ned similar?

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

[Eating My Wings]

:lmao: Awesome thread! Can't stop laughing.

I can understand that people can hate Jaime, I have no problem with that, but why do people think he's still a thoroughly bad person?

Let's make a list of all the glorious deeds Jaime has done after his redemption began!

He:

1. Screwed his sister atop of their dead son
   
   
2. Passed by the fake Arya, without even a single thought about what would happen to the poor northern girl
   
   
3. Killed the three broken men just because he felt like it
   
   
4. Threatened to send Ed's baby flying
   
   
5. Handed Riverrun over to the Freys
   
   
6. Imprisoned Ed and ordered his men to shoot Jeyne, had she been to escape
   
   
7. Humiliated and subjugated the people of Riverrun
   
   
8. Interrupted Lord Bracken during sex
   
   
9. Humiliated and subjugated Lord Blackwood
   
   
10. Took hostages from the Trident lords.
    

While this happens, Jaime's personality is becoming more and more Jon-like (honorable, keeps his vows, curbs his recklessness, holds his tongue)

Strange... Cat released him in exchange for the freedom of her daughters. And since he failed to deliver the Stark girls, he should have returned to his old cell. And by the way, didn't he swear something like: "I shall not raise the sword against the Tullys!"?

and essentially a lot of people agree that Jaime's arc is heading towards Jon's, potentially being Jon's Kingsguard

A. LS will hang him before that could happen.

B. Why should Jon leave Jaime's head on his shoulders once he learns about the Bran defenestration?

[Florina Laufeyson]

No.

:agree:

[Father of Hosts]

Well, at least this hasn't been "X amount of reasons I hate Jaime Lannister" for the 978th incarnation.

:lmao: Awesome thread! Can't stop laughing.

Let's make a list of all the glorious deeds Jaime has done after his redemption began!

snip

Strange... Cat released him in exchange for the freedom of her daughters. And since he failed to deliver the Stark girls, he should have returned to his old cell. And by the way, didn't he swear something like: "I shall not raise the sword against the Tullys!"?

A. LS will hang him before that could happen.

B. Why should Jon leave Jaime's head on his shoulders once he learns about the Bran defenestration?

Due to a number of circumstances outside of Jaime's control, he was not able to deliver the girls to their dead mother's reanimated corpse. How horrible for Sansa and Arya.

I tend to think Jaime has a more important role to play in the story than UnCat so I don't see him getting the rope anytime soon.

[The Angels' Prophet]

:lmao: Awesome thread! Can't stop laughing.

Let's make a list of all the glorious deeds Jaime has done after his redemption began!

He:

1. Screwed his sister atop of their dead son
   
2. Passed by the fake Arya, without even a single thought about what would happen to the poor northern girl
   
   
3. Killed the three broken men just because he felt like it
   
   
4. Threatened to send Ed's baby flying
   
   
5. Handed Riverrun over to the Freys
   
   
6. Imprisoned Ed and ordered his men to shoot Jeyne, had she been to escape
   
   
7. Humiliated and subjugated the people of Riverrun
   
   
8. Interrupted Lord Bracken during sex
   
   
9. Humiliated and subjugated Lord Blackwood
   
   
10. Took hostages from the Trident lords.
    

1. Let's agree on the fact that Jaime at the very least USED to lust after Cersei, yes? Let's also agree that he hadn't had sex in about a year and a half, almost two years. I agree he shouldn't have done that over Joff's body, much as it made me laugh ( I would have preferred it over Tywin's body;that would have been hilarious) but I can understand why he slept with Cersei then.

2. There really wasn't anything he could have done, in accordance to this. And I believe he actually did feel sorry for her, if I'm not mistaken.

3. Could you specify as to what you are referring too?

4. It's war. Besides, if Jaime had gone through with it, it would have reinforced the idea that Jaime believes all lives to be equal, regardless of rank or innocence.

5. Uh, his FATHER gave Riverrun to the Freys. If you're talking about the siege, then again, he didn't really have a choice. it was an order. He's a knight.

6. Edmure was already imprisoned, and there was no way Jaime could have just let him go. Plus, Edmure tricked the Lannisters and Freys. Jeyne could be very very dangerous if she did escape; she could get pregnant and claim it was Robb's child. She's also not a very good hostage at the same time.

7. Not really, but they were rebels, that cannot be forgotten.

8. Umm...okay...? Why is this such a 'vile' act?

9. Pretty much same response as number 7.

10. It's War. Of course you take hostages.

Also, your remark on Not taking arms against Tully or Stark makes me wonder if you even read between the lines of Jaime's chapters, because he clearly says he doesn't want to take arms against them several times. His oath is very important to him. And he is trying to get Sansa back, and he believes Arya is dead.

[FooFighterDDS]

There are plenty of similarities. They are especially noticeable considering ASoS and ADwD were originally one book. You can see their parallel journeys. The most obvious ones are their views on vows and honor. Which vows can be broken to uphold more important vows? Is it possible that dishonorable acts are for the greater good? The most obvious examples concern Ygritte and Cersei, Aerys and the Half-hand.

[WhiteOwl18]

I can't believe you guys forgot the most obvious similarity: they both have a name that starts with J. :P

[Rickeen Baratheon]

I love Jaime as a character, but will hate him for certain actions; which are hate worthy. No point making things up, he isn't meant to be a paragon of good, or evil. He is what a hero is, grey.