Is Fanfiction really that bad?

[Datepalm]

The fact that author's intentions may be problematic to ascertain isn't really a reason to rule out examining and discussing an author's intentions, and referencing their own statements to this effect. If you have reason to believe an author is confabulating, then that's worth discussing, rather than just a reason to tell it all to go hang.

Isn't it thought? I mean, anyone can do what they like, obviously , but as a personal preference - since I can't trust, and half the time, can't find, the author's stated intentions, why not pretend there is no author? It's just going too far outside the book to actually start examining the authors statements, politics, biography, etc, and something that can't possibly be done in a balanced way across different books and authors. At most, I think I'm willing to bring in different works by the same author as they might sort of kind of constitute a single body of text and therefore be worth comparing when considering a particular book as a subset. Other than that, I usually try and avoid knowing too much about the author, if anything.

[Rose-Papillon]

It's interesting to see how much authors vary in their opinions towards fanfiction. To his credit, GRRM doesn't actively attempt to prevent people from writing fanfiction (unlike Anne Rice), he just doesn't encourage it.
As for me personally...I don't know. I'm not much of a writer, so I don't really get involved in any fanfiction from any fandom.
It seems harmless enough to me, but then they're not my characters.

[Rorshach]

Isn't it thought? I mean, anyone can do what they like, obviously , but as a personal preference - since I can't trust, and half the time, can't find, the author's stated intentions, why not pretend there is no author? It's just going too far outside the book to actually start examining the authors statements, politics, biography, etc, and something that can't possibly be done in a balanced way across different books and authors. At most, I think I'm willing to bring in different works by the same author as they might sort of kind of constitute a single body of text and therefore be worth comparing when considering a particular book as a subset. Other than that, I usually try and avoid knowing too much about the author, if anything.

It does sound like you don't really spend much time on the author's intentions, and for me that's fine. I don't see any reason why one should examine the stated intentions behind a piece of work - unless you are trying to figure it out yourself. The intention, that is.

If you do, the author is the prime source whether you like it or not, and should be engaged with. If the intention is not part of what you're looking at, there's no reason to seek it out.

[LordStoneheart]

I just recently read Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys and it has in a very small way changed my usually adamant dislike for all things fanfiction. It's basically a fanfiction that tries to humanize and bring sympathy to Charlotte Bronte's mad creole woman, but it's definitely not what Bronte intended.

I'm still not "okay" with fanfiction but I will say, if there's a right way to do it, its how Rhys did it.

[lady narcissa]

In this instance, I think fanfiction is awesome...

How the creator of 'Vampire Diaries' used Kindle Worlds to get back at her publisher

LJ Smith’s publisher tried to cut her out, but she used fanfiction to get the last laugh.

Brace yourselves, fans: Kindle Worlds, Amazon’s write-for-hire publishing platform disguised as a friendly attempt to pay fans for writing fanfiction, has actually led to some amazing writerly justice for the creator of the Vampire Diaries.

LJ Smith, the original writer of the popular Vampire Diaries books, was fired from the series in 2011 after churning out regular installments for over two decades. But now, using the Kindle Worlds platform of the company that hired her, then fired her, Smith is writing “fanfiction” of the series she created.

In a moment of beautiful karma, Smith’s two installments of Vampire Diaries tie-ins, wryly labeled as “fanfic based on the Vampire Diaries book series—also by L. J. Smith,” are currently topping the list of bestselling stories on Kindle Worlds.

http://www.dailydot.com/fandom/vampire-diaries-lj-smith-kindle-fanfiction/

[fabio012]

I don't see how any harm can come of it.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

fabio,

If the fanfic writer sues the actual author because they claim the author stole the existing story from their fanfic, that can cause real damage.

[The Marquis de Leech]

fabio,

If the fanfic writer sues the actual author because they claim the author stole the existijg story from their fanfic, that can cause real damage.

Hence Pratchett's approach: if you want to write fanfic, do it where he can't see it, so he doesn't get accused of stealing story.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

RBPL,

Haven't fanfic writers sued anyway?

[Gneisenau]

I'm not quite sure how fanfic writers sueing the original author is a problem of fanfic itself. It seems to be a problem with the concept of intellectual property.

[Alester Florent]

As with so many things, it depends. Obviously, there's a wide divergence in quality regardless of type. But it does come in a variety of flavours. In general I'm more wary of fanfics that purport to tell the story of the main characters of the work on which its based, whether that's a prequel, sequel or just "scenes we haven't seen". Which isn't to say these can't be done well, but these are usually the sort that come in for most derision, often because original characters are introduced who change everything. In contrast, "alternative versions" of the main story can be excellent (see Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, as mentioned by others, although I will admit I've gone off it more recently).

Other types, though, where you're dealing with a large setting, don't necessarily have to deal with the main characters at all, or may feature them only at a distance. That sort of thing can be really good, and give a perspective on a setting that wouldn't otherwise be considered.

I do also find that fanfiction is a largely artificial category: a legal distinction as much as an artistic one that's only become relevant with the advent of intellectual property law. As already mentioned, some of the greatest literature ever written was what, if written now, we'd call fanfic. Moreover, I don't see the real difference between a roleplaying game - and that includes the ASoIaF roleplays, both the tabletop and the MUSSH here - and fanfic. What is a RPG campaign, after all, if not collaborative storytelling (by fans)?

In fact, I think fanfiction is something that's pretty much always existed; it's just that now the internet means that much more of it is available. Previously people would write it and keep it to themselves, or just come up with stories in their head that never saw paper. It's the internet that's allowed everyone to post everything, and as with everything on the internet, there's no quality control, so of course there's going to be dross; in fact, the vast majority of it is. But then remember Sturgeon's Law: "ninety percent of everything is crap". That there is some extremely crappy fanfiction doesn't mean that the genre as a whole is worthless any more than the existence of Justin Bieber means we should write off the whole of music.

From what I've read of GRRM's thoughts on the subject, he disapproves of fanfic because he thinks it stunts worldbuilding. On that he might have a point. But on the other hand I don't really see the harm in allowing people to create their own versions of an existing setting in which they're comfortable, just to learn how to write as much as anything. Worldbuilding is hard and it's easy to get so bogged down in it you never actually get around to writing the story. Learning how to put words onto the paper without worrying about coming up with the setting as you go along (or in advance) is valuable in itself, I think. Moreover, not all fiction is set in an original world - much, probably most, of it is set in this one, and even a lot of fantasy is set in a world that's very close to ours with minor divergences. The ability to create an entire setting from scratch is no doubt a useful skill for a writer, but I don't think it's necessarily an essential one, and it's certainly not as important as getting into the discipline of actual writing. If fanfiction helps people do that, more power to them.

[El Cid]

Fan fiction is fine. Like anything it has it pros and cons. I look at it this way - if you are passionate about writing and are young do it. It is a solid platform to expand your writing skills while peers read it and gives you the motivation to finish a piece. Obviously it isn't the case for everyone, but I don't see any harm in it. I use to write fan fiction before I started writing my own ideas. It was trash and I'd like to forget writing it, but it really helped me flesh out ideas, plots, etc. Therefore, I really don't see any problem with it.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Gnei,

I'm not quite sure how fanfic writers sueing the original author is a problem of fanfic itself. It seems to be a problem with the concept of intellectual property.

What do you mean a problem with intellectual property? Is ownership of the sub-created world of Westeros problematic.

[Richard]

Fan fiction is fine. Like anything it has it pros and cons. I look at it this way - if you are passionate about writing and are young do it.

Inaccurate, I think. If you're passionate about writing, you'll invent your own shit, because that's part of the ride, part of the rush, part of what drives you on. You won't want to be using someone else's second hand content. By contrast, all the fanfic I've ever seen or heard of is the product of people who are passionate about a specific fictional context with which they have fallen in love. Not to snub the passion itself, because that stands as a testament to the power of the fiction that inspires it, but I don't think it has anything to do with the desire to be a writer (though the two desires may, I suppose, co-exist in the same person.)

Personally? In my teens I wrote a lot of intensely derivative fiction for my own amusement - you could have told at a glance which authors I'd been reading by the content and style of my stories. But it would never have occurred to me to write fiction about existing authors' characters and worlds no matter how much I loved them because, hey, then it's not mine, is it? Would have defeated the object of the exercise.

gives you the motivation to finish a piece.

Hmm - don't want to be too harsh here, but if you don't have the motivation to finish the piece of fiction you're writing, then what the hell are you doing trying to be a writer? As (almost) any published author will tell you, it's a very tough road to walk, replete with brutal disappointments and setbacks. If you don't believe in what you're writing enough to carry it through, how the hell are you going to manage half a dozen years in the wilderness while everyone tells you your finished products aren't worth publishing.

To be clear, I have no real problem with fan fiction - rather like my attitude to S&M, I don't really get why you would do that shit, but hey, if you're not hurting anyone non-consensually, have at it. But I think it's a great shame to be encouraging potentially talented writers to settle for borrowing other people's second hand fictions when they could be out there getting way more and better experience doing their own thing.

Cf - the brother-in-law of an Italian friend of mine is a very talented musician, plays several instruments exceptionally well and has a decent singing voice too. Every summer he pours all of his efforts and ingenuity into staging a re-enactment/concert of Pink Floyd's The Wall in the main square of the village where he lives. He clearly enjoys this, and so do the other villagers who come to watch.

But I stand there and I can't help thinking - fuck, man, you got such talent. Why don't you take that talent and do something of your own? Who knows where that might take you.

[Datepalm]

Inaccurate, I think. If you're passionate about writing, you'll invent your own shit, because that's part of the ride, part of the rush, part of what drives you on.

I think that the thing about fanfic is that it, indeed, doesn't come from the writing impulse. It comes from the reading impulse. As such the whole debate about fanfic-as-training-wheels/handicap for 'real' writers is besides the point. I don't see fanfic as a prelude to writing original stuff - I see it as an epilogue to reading a book (/watching a show/hearing a concert/whatever).

Fanfic, to me at least, seem to exist mostly on the spectrum that starts with writing reviews and analyses and joining discussion forums. It's not about making life easier for yourself while writing and original story - it's about dealing with how you think/feel/experience that other original story. That's why I think fic readers are so relatively tolerant of stuff that is extremely bad in any kind of technical craft sense.

What readers come to fic for is not more of the same - it's the various analyses, explanations, criticisms, reactions, explanations, subversions, deconstructions and the like that fanfic can be extremely interesting and flexible about. Fanfic, I think, is mostly an intuitive way for fans of analyzing and reacting to a story and processing their thoughts and feeling about it - particularly for someone who doesn't have experience and maybe the analytical framework and possibly conscious self-awareness to go write an essay or get into an elaborate argument.

The people who have a real need to tell their own story are, I hope, going to tell it anyway. That doesn't invalidate what fanfic is actually doing.

[Happy Ent]

But that would make Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality not fanfic. Or what?

(Which is fine. And I’m not saying that every definition of genre needs to be airtight.)

[Datepalm]

Methods or Rationality really does strike me as being much more reasonably categorized as satire or parody, or even some kind of incredibly elaborate didactic illustrative thing, like when Winnie the Pooh is drafted to tell children to drink their milk or something, (I haven't actually read MoR. Er.) than as fanfic. There are other genres that use existing characters/setting and which are not usually considered fanfic. MoR happens to be online and published like a fanfic, but that doesn't necessarily make it one.

[Cry_Havoc]

As a former mod of a fanfic forum, I'm a massive defender of it, both good and bad. At the end of the day, it's your choice whether to read it or not. You don't have to keep going if something is so riddled with plot holes and punctuation issues that you can't continue. However, it does engage teenagers and adults in the craft of writing. I was one of those teenagers who started out writing very poor Harry Potter fanfiction. I experimented with tense, voice, style and subject matter. I produced some really good stuff and some really cringeworthy stuff. I also beta read and put on classes to support others. Then I moved into original fiction, and my writing is so much better for it.

Can I also add that one of my favourite authors (I put her in my Top Five) was originally a fanfic author who now has representation and looking to publishing her own YA fantasy!

Thanks for this. I would add that all musicians, whether they play drums, guitar, vocals, piano, or the trombone have cut their teeth by covering someone's work.

[Baelor Swyft]

Fanfiction is just another way that some people express their fandom. It certainly isn't any better or worse than any of the other ways people express their fandom, like podcasting, cosplay, MS paint drawings, or discussing the finer points of zany theories like we often do on here. Fanfiction doesn't really appeal to me.... especially not fanfiction based on a book series, because it's very difficult to match an author's tone in his or her very own medium. I'm more into discussing zany theories. But hey, I'm not Kim Jong-il, I'm not going to be down on people for enjoying something I don't.

As far as how much merit fanfic has as a work of writing, and whether a fanfic author can go on to become a legitimate author of original works in their own right... I don't think that's even a valid question, really. There isn't just 'one' path to becoming a good author. It's not that simple or easy, and if it were we'd have a billion more good authors in the world than we do. Look at it in terms of music. Some of the biggest & best artists start out in a cover band, others never play a cover their entire career, and then some just steal pieces of other songs and fuse them together into original works. That fanfiction can be a valid path to developing, honing, and mastering one's writing skills is beyond question. It depends much more on the individual's aptitudes than on the particular medium.

I'm not a writer, but I am a musician, and after sitting through open mic nights most of my life I can tell you this beyond any reasonable doubt: a lot of "original" works are a thousand times more derivative than a lot of covers. It's really, really, really easy to invent something from scratch that sounds like a mediocre version of something we've all heard a million times before. Meanwhile, taking something that already exists as a base can be a great way for an artist to twist and distort it into something genuinely original and creative.

Look at ASOIAF itself, it's so full of tropes you can't turn a page without hitting fifty of them. And yet George took all those tropes and turned them on their head, making them into something strikingly unique. Most fanfic may suck, and many may use it as a crutch, but that it's a medium with the potential to be great isn't something that can be questioned.