Why is Rhaegar seen in a postive light?

[King of Winters]

I don't know why. I still trying to find it but I had no luck yet.

You'll find it eventually JQC :D

[Jon's Queen Consort]

You'll find it eventually JQC :D

I seriously think that some people think like Cersei :leaving:

[Ingelheim]

It's pretty simple. We have more information about him than 99% people of Westeros. So they believe what they can bielieve, nothing else

[King of Winters]

I seriously think that some people think like Cersei :leaving:

Really, what gave them that idea? :P

[Nami]

I seriously think that some people think like Cersei :leaving:

People like Jaime who actually threw a child out a window making him a cripple for life

don't see see how liking Rhaegar is that unfathomable when he wasn't no where near this kind of behavior, apparently

[The Wolves]

People like Jaime who actually threw a child out a window making him a cripple for life

don't see see how liking Rhaegar is that unfathomable when he wasn't no where near this kind of behavior, apparently

Exactly. I don't think we have enough about Rhaegar and Roberts's Rebellion to think so badly of him.

[WildBlood]

... We've got the impression that Rhaegar was either stupid, selfish or obsessed to the point of madness but we know nothing about the Crown Princess. Whenever someone mentions her its always something positive, same goes for Rhaegar (minus Robert) no one actually resents him

I really got quite the opposite out of the text....Sure it is only from others POV's, to which I know you will say they are bias, but the books paint a particular picture of him and that is pretty much what you need to go by.

[Pikachu101]

Not really. No one thinks good stuff about Joffrey

He the person was bad when alive, people will remember that after they died

I wouldn't put Joffrey on the same level as everyone else :P

People like Rhaegar, Elia, Lyanna etc. aren't evil, cruel people so it's little wonder why everyone remembers the great stuff about them and ignore the bad stuff.

Honestly this is the basic idea we get from the dead people:

Rhaegar: would have been a better king than Aerys the mad, Robert the drunk and Joffrey the psycho

Elia: the gentle, kind, Disney princess who could have been queen

Lyanna: just like Arya, therefore she's awesome. Also she stood up for Howland which makes her even better

Ashara: the beautiful woman

Arthur: the badass with the sword

Joana: the lovely mother who if she lived her children's lives would have been happier

Not a single criticism against them from characters. The only critics they get are from readers, but that's based of our interpretation of them, we actually don't have a hoot about what they were like

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Really, what gave them that idea? :P

maybe they want to fly with him while they ride a dragon? :dunno:

[Pikachu101]

But I think that people place the blame on the Mad King and forget/downplay his involvement because he was only present to die a heroic death.

:agree:

It's easier to blame the evil king, rather than his irresponsible son. Especially when you can look back and think "if only Rhaegar was king and not this debauched drunk!"

Rhaegar was made a tragic hero from RR, that's what history does. And because he wasn't purely evil, characters ignore his flaws in favour of his positive attributes.

Take Robb for example, he was irresponsible, lost his kingdom for a girl, didn't try and get his sisters back, made politically suicidal decisions and caused so many blunders for the North. But people won't remember this, all they'll see is the Young Wolf who was never defeated in battle and was struck down through trickery and evil

[Nami]

maybe they want to fly with him while they ride a dragon? :dunno:

Can you stop the sarcasm please?

[Ned's Epic Beard]

Ned's lack of thought can't be taken as lack of hatred. On the other hand we have solid proof that other stark family member disliked Rheagar. Bran in GOT confirmed that layanna was kidnapped and raped by him.

Plus we know that rheagar went to crush the justified rebellion so he is already asshole in my book.

[lareine]

But it's pointless to argue since we really have no idea how any of the three them felt about any of it. All we have are the reactions of loved ones, the Dornish may not have approved of anything Rhaegar did, but that doesn't mean Elia felt the same. She may have been humiliated, and she may have not cared at all. Until he tells us we just have no idea. And no one threw a bastard in Elia's face, she was dead by the time he was born and that was no where near her anyway.

You are right, we really don't have any definitive idea how any of these characters felt and so we are only guessing blindly what their true feelings were. But with regards to Elia's feelings, I do think there are some things that need to be considered. Being the Crown Princess meant that her life was lived in a fishbowl. Probably from the very first moment that she came to KL, everyone was evaluating every little thing she did and said. Courts are always very cruel, catty places where people are always trying to either curry favor with people in power or trying to bring them down. This seems especially true with Aery's court at KL. We know the Lannisters would have only been too gleeful to see her die in childbirth or lose favor with her in-laws or husband. Even if she personally didn't love her husband and could care less if he took a second wife, or even if she understood his motives and was completely supportive of them, the fact remains that she was under an incredible amount of pressure and constant scrutiny by the court and the kingdom as a whole. They wouldn't have known about Rhaegar's motives or any kind of understanding the couple may have had. All the public saw was her husbands actions, which did make it seem as though he found her unattractive and so unsatisfying to him that he ran off with another woman. Humiliation like that on such a large public scale would rattle even the most confident, mellow, easy going and forgiving of women. Add to this how everything escalated into full scale rebellion and madness, I can't imagine how quickly her life must have turned incredibly ugly. She would almost have had to be super human not to be affected by it.

[Mariagoner]

They wouldn't have known about Rhaegar's motives or any kind of understanding the couple may have had. All the public saw was her husbands actions, which did make it seem as though he found her unattractive and so unsatisfying to him that he ran off with another woman. Humiliation like that on such a large public scale would rattle even the most confident, mellow, easy going and forgiving of women. Add to this how everything escalated into full scale rebellion and madness, I can't imagine how quickly her life must have turned incredibly ugly. She would almost have had to be super human not to be affected by it.

Oh, but don't forget -- Dorne has paramours. Never mind that even Dornish nobles (like debauched Oberyn) still don't marry their paramours or make their bastard children their heirs -- because Dorne is sexually liberated, Elia must be absolutely thrilled by the fact that her husband publicly humiliated her and ran off (or abducted to brutally rape) a 14 year old girl who's already betrothed to another powerful noble.

In fact, Elia was probably cheering on Rhaegar's quest to fill Lyanna's 'surpassingly lovely' body with a fantastic prophecy love baby! I mean, how could she not be thrilled with the prospect of being replaced as Rhaegar's wife and/or lover by a younger, more nubile, and much more beautiful girl? What could possibly go wrong with her own 2 children having a half-brother or half-sister (born from a mother preferred by their royal father) hanging around? The Blackfyre rebellion were so a few generations ago. No way a bunch of Targaryen bastards could possibly make trouble for the legitimate heirs of the throne.

Seriously, I don't care how little Elia cared about Rhaegar's sexual antics. It's true that she might not give a damn about every whore Rhaegar nailed from the Wall to King's Landing for all we know. But any sensible noble woman would draw the line when her husband decides to run off with another noble woman with the express purpose of having another child. Who might eventually be legitimized, become a Ramsay Snow or Renly Baratheon or Dameon Blackfyre sort, and scheme to disinherit his older siblings. Elia would have to be a total idiot to be sanguine about as much.

[ellisg]

Rhaegar was loved because he was good looking and good at everything he did. Also he was cut down before he had the chance to become the King so many people wished he would be. Also it seems almost every character barring Robert thought the sun shone out of his arse. He may well have been a nice bloke but at the end of the day he did something Joffrey did: Succeeded in causing a rebellion which cost thousands of lives. Yes it was unintentional but him running off with Lyanna ripped the kingdom apart and resulted in the near extinction of his own house, he cast his wife aside as if she was a broken toy all for either love or to fulfill a prophecy. People may think fondly of his memory but he caused what would have been his future kingdom to go to war.

[Mariagoner]

Rhaegar was loved because he was good looking and good at everything he did. Also he was cut down before he had the chance to become the King so many people wished he would be. Also it seems almost every character barring Robert thought the sun shone out of his arse. He may well have been a nice bloke but at the end of the day he did something Joffrey did: Succeeded in causing a rebellion which cost thousands of lives. Yes it was unintentional but him running off with Lyanna ripped the kingdom apart and resulted in the near extinction of his own house, he cast his wife aside as if she was a broken toy all for either love or to fulfill a prophecy. People may think fondly of his memory but he caused what would have been his future kingdom to go to war.

So true. Rhaegar died at his peak, for a romantic cause, looking gorgeous and being cast as an attractive and wonderfully indistinct alternative to fools, crazies and sociopaths like Robert, Aerys, and Joffrey. Given that list of horrors, nearly anyone could be seen wistfully. In fact, I bet you anything that if Rhaegar somehow ended up king, he'd continue to make decisions as good as the one he made to run off with Lyanna for the sake of a prophecy -- and then history would cast Robert as the romantic hero that could have saved Westeros.

After all, if Robert had died young and while fighting a war against a mad king for his stolen fiance, he'd be glorified as a brave, loyal, ferociously strong young man cut down before his time as well. No doubt some would wish he had been king instead of a gouty, ugly, aged and prophecy-obsessed old King Rhaegar.

All it takes to be martyred is to die young and pretty while being contrasted with very ugly alternative.

[ellisg]

Given that list of horrors, nearly anyone could be seen wistfully. In fact, I bet you anything that if Rhaegar somehow ended up king, he'd continue to make decisions as good as the one he made to run off with Lyanna for the sake of a prophecy -- and then history would cast Robert as the romantic hero that could have saved Westeros.

After all, if Robert had died young and while fighting a war against a mad king for his stolen fiance, he'd be glorified as a brave, loyal, ferociously strong young man cut down before his time as well. No doubt some would wish he had been king instead of a gouty, ugly, aged and prophecy-obsessed old King Rhaegar.

All it takes to be martyred is to die young and pretty while being contrasted with very ugly alternative.

:agree: I think you're spot on. If Rhaegar had succeeded and turned out to be an awful King I think people would have loved Robert the way they love Rhaegar.

[Mariagoner]

If Rhaegar had succeeded and turned out to be an awful King I think people would have loved Robert the way they love Rhaegar.

I really dislike Rhaegar's character and the way he's glorified in both canon and the fandom but even I think he wouldn't be Joffrey or Aerys levels of terrible. (Hopefully not, anyway.) But I think he'd likely be closer to Robert than anyone would admit. He wouldn't spend his time whoring and drinking away his depression the way Robert did -- but honestly, he'd probably end up just as detached from the day-to-day concerns of his realm as well. Given his hasty, abrupt and completely unprecedented actions in running off with Lyanna, no doubt he'd be the type to disregard all social norms and even outright rules (like: don't run off with another noble's fiancee when you're already bloody married!) because of a "greater cause." No doubt his poor Hand would end up spending a considerable amount of time trying to excuse his actions and soothe the ruffled feathers of very angry nobles.

("No, Lord Stark, King Rhaegar wasn't abducting your daughter to rape her. He wants to put the future prince that was promised within her! No, he's not going mad, he's listening to a grand prophecy! So I hope you don't mind that we're breaking off any plans you had with the Baratheons now. Your daughter is going to be the second queen of Westeros! Wait, what do you mean you're concerned that there's never been a non-Targaryen person involved in a polygamous marriage before? What could go wrong? I'm sure your half-Targaryen grandchildren will never have cause to war with the half-Targaryen grandchildren of the Martells!")

Only problem is that that greater cause might well be wrong (how's that 'three heads of the dragon' bit looking now, given that Jon's not a girl and Rhaegar's two older kids are dead?) and will no doubt frustrate and anger people who don't share Rhaegar's glorious vision of dragons coming to life and what-not.

I honestly think Rhaegar would end up at best a mediocre king so fixated on his own fantasies that most of his duties would end up handled by his Hand, who's hopefully at least competent. And at worst... well, at worst Rhaegar would commit to very foolish and poorly thought out plans (ie kidnap Lyanna) because of his own obsessions, not giving a damn who gets hurt (his wife, his kids, Lyanna's family and fiancee, eventually Lyanna herself, etc.) so long as he gets what he wants. And in doing so, he just might end up inadvertently plunging Westeros into some catastrophic civil war -- just like he did in canon.

[Bronn Blackwater]

Ser Barriston says he was alright just not as great as Dany believed

[Ser Lepus]

Ser Barriston says he was alright just not as great as Dany believed

Ser Barristan thinks that good knight = good king, I guess that, from Selmy's point of view, Rhaegar wasn't devoted enough to jousting and swordfighting and war to be a great knight, he was just good at it, but he didn't really like it.