Seasons and Year lengths in ASoIaF?

[BarristonTheBAMF]

Been reading a while, figured it was time to post one. Haven't seen much/anything on this though(if there is a thread already would be fun to read), so I'll get the ball rolling...

First off, how long do you think the years are compared to Earth? It always struck me that the kids throughout the series seem slightly more mature/grown than their age would be here. I'm thinking maybe a 400 day year, or something like that. Over the course of 10 years, it would "add" an extra year compared to someone growing up here. Thoughts?

Secondly, the uneven seasons. Being a dork, and probably too infatuated with this series, I've even put thought into how this mystical world rotates around its sun/tilts on its axis to create seasons that last years and have no regularity to them. Think GRRM has ever put any thought into this, and the science behind it, or just kind of said "I am the god of this series, I say this sh*t happens this way. Enjoy your crazy seasons Westerosians." ?

[Sordelor]

I agrea with the 400 days a year and I also don't really know how it works with how the worls of asoiafturns arounnd the sun.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

When asked about the length of the year, GRRM answered that its "Twelve moon tuns to a year, as on earth." As the moon corresponds to the average length of the female cycle similarly well as on our world, I also assume that the single moons have the same length. This would imply a year that's very close in length to ours.

[Dr. Pepper]

Years and such are the same as on Earth.

SSM

[What is the cycle of a year? Why do they count years when seasons are strange?]

Twelve moon tuns to a year, as on earth. Even on our earth, years have nothing to do with the seasons, or with the cycles of the moon. A year is a measure of a solar cycle, of how long it takes the earth to make one complete revolution around the sun. The same is true for the world of Westeros. Seasons do not come into it.

The odd seasons are explained by magic only and we'll get answers to this at some point.

SSM

He assured us that we will someday find out how seasons work in his world, and that it will not be a scientific explanation because hello, it's a fantasy novel. He said that some fans have written him with fantastic explanations involving two suns, one of which is a black dwarf but that they will be disappointed.

[Vuron]

Edit to remove.... No need for me to post the same thing as Pepper.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Oh, and I notice that I totally forgot to answer to your second part:

Secondly, the uneven seasons. Being a dork, and probably too infatuated with this series, I've even put thought into how this mystical world rotates around its sun/tilts on its axis to create seasons that last years and have no regularity to them. Think GRRM has ever put any thought into this, and the science behind it, or just kind of said "I am the god of this series, I say this sh*t happens this way. Enjoy your crazy seasons Westerosians." ?

Hehe, I've also puzzled over that question quite a bit. You won't find anything corresponding to Newtonian mechanics, but if you allow for other significant forces to impact the celestial mechanics, you can construct a model for the thing.

It requires a bit of thinking though as, you need to take into account that:

• The planet has a nonzero but constant inclination (doesn't wobble on its axis). Otherwise, the eye of the constellation 'Ice Dragon' wouldn't always point north
  
• The seasons correspond to longer and shorter days (been mentioned several times)
  
• The time it takes for the planet to go round the sun is constant, 1 year (GRRM said so)
  

I wanted to add that I don't believe that GRRM actually mapped out the possible science of it, but in the meantime Dr Pepper has posted and eliminated all doubt on that topic so that my meager clues are of no interest anymore. Of course, that GRRM doesn't explain the seasons with science doesn't mean that we're not allowed to think about it could be explained.

[KingInTheCave]

Think GRRM has ever put any thought into this, and the science behind it,

No, as Dr. Pepper mentioned, it's magic. He also repeated this in a very recent Q&A.

But if we're going to think about it scientifically, I don't think it's possible. I read somewhere that it could work if Planetos had two suns, but since no one in the story has ever mentioned a second sun, we can assume that there isn't one.

[BarristonTheBAMF]

Ah. Thanks for the info on what GRRM has stated about this. Wonder if/what the magic aspect will be with the seasons if its ever touched on in the last couple books

[Vuron]

Ah. Thanks for the info on what GRRM has stated about this. Wonder if/what the magic aspect will be with the seasons if its ever touched on in the last couple books

I have a feeling that it will play a major role in the last few books. The Others, dragons, magic, etc. are all tied into the seasons.

[Logicsbane]

I always just assumed that the days between ' Name Days' were NOT necessarily 365, or that a moon turn was 30-31 days.....I mean...it's not Earth so it can be whatever GRRM wants it to be.....I personally preferred to think there were about 450 days in a year, and that John and Robb were 17-18 not 14-15 like in the books.Even Rickon at 4 yrs old would not be capable of cooperating and taking direction from Bran, most the 4 yr olds I know are impossible ( remember, we weren't even in Kindergarten at 4, How the Hell were we going to hide in the Crypts quietly or not throw a spazz when some Wildling takes off with us?). The read was always more enjoyable when I imagined the Characters ages closer to how they did it in the show, so the longer years is how I imagined it.

I do t expect it will ever be explained in text tho...l

[Logicsbane]

Years and such are the same as on Earth.SSMThe odd seasons are explained by magic only and we'll get answers to this at some point.SSM

Balderdash.....how many days in a moons turn? GRRM doesn't answer that, and there no telling that it's the same length as our Earth.

[Dr. Pepper]

Balderdash.....how many days in a moons turn? GRRM doesn't answer that, and there no telling that it's the same length as our Earth.

Nonsense right back at ya...."as it is on earth" pretty explicitly says it's the same length as it is on Earth.  

[Lady Blackmont]

I always just assumed that the days between ' Name Days' were NOT necessarily 365, or that a moon turn was 30-31 days.....I mean...it's not Earth so it can be whatever GRRM wants it to be.....I personally preferred to think there were about 450 days in a year, and that John and Robb were 17-18 not 14-15 like in the books.Even Rickon at 4 yrs old would not be capable of cooperating and taking direction from Bran, most the 4 yr olds I know are impossible ( remember, we weren't even in Kindergarten at 4, How the Hell were we going to hide in the Crypts quietly or not throw a spazz when some Wildling takes off with us?). The read was always more enjoyable when I imagined the Characters ages closer to how they did it in the show, so the longer years is how I imagined it.

I do t expect it will ever be explained in text tho...l

Maturity =/= Age. Glaringly obvious.

[Wavey Sauce]

Winter summer winter summer winter summer winter summer winter summer

 

And each if the seasons is about 4-7 years. Sometimes in rare cases it will be 9 years as it has in the current story line now. Was a really long summer which will be a really long winter.

 

Even book 7 is called "dreams of spring" which sounds to me like that it will still be winter and everyone is just praying and hoping that the winter will end at some point and they will live through it, but they are still in a terrible spot in a harsh winter

[Lady Blackmont]

Winter summer winter summer winter summer winter summer winter summer
 
And each if the seasons is about 4-7 years. Sometimes in rare cases it will be 9 years as it has in the current story line now. Was a really long summer which will be a really long winter.
 
Even book 7 is called "dreams of spring" which sounds to me like that it will still be winter and everyone is just praying and hoping that the winter will end at some point and they will live through it, but they are still in a terrible spot in a harsh winter

No, each of the seasons (Winter-Summer) seem to be 1-2 years, with occasional 3-4 year seasons. Oddly, autumn was only a year long, probably due to the dismissal of the five year gap. I suppose the Maesters consider Spring/Fall to be "transition" seasons" and we would consider the edges of Winter and Summer to be part of them.

[Wavey Sauce]

No, each of the seasons (Winter-Summer) seem to be 1-2 years, with occasional 3-4 year seasons. Oddly, autumn was only a year long, probably due to the dismissal of the five year gap. I suppose the Maesters consider Spring/Fall to be "transition" seasons" and we would consider the edges of Winter and Summer to be part of them.

 

The current story they just got out of a really long summer. From the time that Arya has been alive she has not seen 1 winter yet.

 

And wasnt it the half hand who stayed outside the wall for like 5-6 years in a winter? iirc

 

But the winters and seasons are longer than 2 years. The current status from ADWD it still isnt even full winter yet and there has been numerous years that have gone by sense the start of book 1 with it not being winter yet

[Lady Blackmont]

The current story they just got out of a really long summer. From the time that Arya has been alive she has not seen 1 winter yet.
 
And wasnt it the half hand who stayed outside the wall for like 5-6 years in a winter? iirc
 
But the winters and seasons are longer than 2 years. The current status from ADWD it still isnt even full winter yet and there has been numerous years that have gone by sense the start of book 1 with it not being winter yet

And it's called... The LONG summer.

Tyrion remembers various Winters, all shorter than three years.

[Lady Sharya]

The current summer had lasted 10 years. Bran was called a summer child in GofTh because he was born when summer began. Hence, the name he gave his wolf.

[Mychel_Redfort]

Balderdash.....how many days in a moons turn? GRRM doesn't answer that, and there no telling that it's the same length as our Earth.

GRRM does answer that : as Cat of the Canals, Arya works for Brisco and comes back to the HoB&W when the moon is black, three days every thirty days.

[Free Northman Reborn]

The planet moves through space as if it was our earth. No difference. Same tilt, rotational and orbital speed.

And the natural seasons are as in our world - at an altitude of say lower earth orbit.

But then just below that altitude you find a kind of invisible planetary blanket that envelops the planet and magically filters the sunlight to create either Long Winter or Long Summer conditions on the surface. Occasionally this blanket weakens, resulting in the natural seasons penetrating it. Which is when we see Summer Snows, Spirit Summers and False Springs.