A note on the Tyrion being a targ theory.

[Rod123]

There is no need to explain Tywin reason to not kill Tyrion if he was not his son.

He would still be a Lannister and kinslayers are cursed, Tywin may be a practical man but there is nothing in his character that makes us thinks he would break such taboo.

A taboo that wasnt broken by people with cold blood like

Victarion Greyjoy

Roose Bolton

The taboo on kinslaying is not something to be broken lightly, which makes Tyrion a doomed character, even if he was a secret Targ, Tywin was his kin.

[David Selig]

Killing second cousins doesn't seem to count as kinslaying since nobody calls Robert kinslayer for killing Rhaegar. So I don't think Tyrion and Tywin would be close enough blood kin for it to count as kinslaying.

[Morienthar]

He isn't a Targ.

[Crowford]

Uhm, that really depends if there is actually a "curse" on kinslayers. Because, you know, there is exactly zero proof about it. It's mentioned again and again, but that's what's called superstition. In a strictly patriarchal society, killing your family is about the worst thing you can do, so of course there are magical taboos attached to it. Only a few people ever do it, and they are likely to be found and punished swiftly, and if not they at least become outcasts, so that alone can be described as a "curse".

As for me, I see no problem whatsoever, and I applauded Tyrion's decision (even though I liked Tywin as well). That Victarion and Roose are held back by superstitions and/or fear of reprisal is bad for them (and good for Euron and Ramsey).

[Bittertea]

IF Tyrion was a bastard, and IF Tywin suspects it then he has no real proof of anything anyway. And even if he go through and didn't kinslay the whole kingdom would think he did. It would destroy his hard work to restore the house after his father bankrupted it.

[Pikachu101]

He isn't a Targ <_<

Why in gods name would George ruin such a deliciously twisted, complex, unstable, father son relationship between Tywin and Tyrion?

The whole idea is cheap, watered down and destroys the very essence of the Tyrion-Tywin complexity

[King of Winters]

He isn't a Targ <_<

Why in gods name would George ruin such a deliciously twisted, complex, unstable, father son relationship between Tywin and Tyrion?

The whole idea is cheap, watered down and destroys the very essence of the Tyrion-Tywin complexity

Finally we agree on something :P

[Free Northman]

He is a Targ. But Tywin only suspected. Since there is no link in a Maester's chain covering DNA testing, Tywin could never know for sure.

Hence his comment to Tyrion about "since I cannot prove that you are not mine"...

Tyrion's a Targ folks. A Great Bastard like Bloodraven and his cousins. It will all fit together beautifully in the end. Just wait and see.

[Roadside Rose]

Since I am really ignorant about this topic, I'd like to ask..

What evidence supports the Tyrion is a Targ theory?

Is it the mismatched eyes?

Because the 'Aerys took liberties at Tywin's wedding' is an incident during Tywin's wedding...there is no hint that there was a liaison between Joanna and Aerys after that. And Tyrion was born long after Tywin's wedding.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

What evidence supports the Tyrion is a Targ theory?

Mainly the sure and certain hope that if you wish upon a star, it always comes true...

But yes, Tyrion having one green and one black eye is often mentioned, as are the liberties at the wedding and the fact that he like so many others is fascinated by dragons.

For what it's worth, GRRM, who is extremely careful about avoiding untruths even if they are accepted has no problem with identifying Tywin as Tyrion's father, while he's very careful with Ned and Jon. Sometimes in the same breath:

[Q about the name of children with dead mothers.] "Dany was most like named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned." (GRRM)

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

He isn't a Targ <_<

Why in gods name would George ruin such a deliciously twisted, complex, unstable, father son relationship between Tywin and Tyrion?

The whole idea is cheap, watered down and destroys the very essence of the Tyrion-Tywin complexity

This x 1000.

The family dynamic of the Lannisters is one of my favorite things in the series. It's tragic and funny and weird. The characters of Tyrion, Jaime, and Cersei are all heavily infleunced by their relationships with Tywin. It would be such a shame to ruin that by making either Tyrion or Jaime and Cersei a secret Targ.

[King of Winters]

Mainly the sure and certain hope that if you wish upon a star, it always comes true...

But yes, Tyrion having one green and one black eye is often mentioned, as are the liberties at the wedding and the fact that he like so many others is fascinated by dragons.

For what it's worth, GRRM, who is extremely careful about avoiding untruths even if they are accepted has no problem with identifying Tywin as Tyrion's father, while he's very careful with Ned and Jon. Sometimes in the same breath:

[Q about the name of children with dead mothers.] "Dany was most like named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned." (GRRM)

Wow, that's interesting. Hintes Ned isn't Jon's father, but that Tyrion is Tywin's.

[Roadside Rose]

[Q about the name of children with dead mothers.] "Dany was most like named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned." (GRRM)

Thanks for the quote!

So Tywin IS Tyrion's father! Unless, we expect Aerys to name him :P which is highly unlikely.

And Ned most certainly isn't Jon's father. \o/

"Dany was most likely named by her mother" - why didn't GRRM say Rhaella?! *just curious*

[KingInTheCave]

What difference does it make if he's doomed or not? He's going to die sooner or later.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

"Dany was most likely named by her mother" - why didn't GRRM say Rhaella?! *just curious*

My guess would be that it was because the point GRRM was making was that mothers sometimes have the time to name their child even if they die in childbirth. The part that's relevant to this point is that Dany was named by her mother, not the concrete id of that mother.

[KingInTheCave]

Thanks for the quote!

So Tywin IS Tyrion's father! Unless, we expect Aerys to name him :P which is highly unlikely.

And Ned most certainly isn't Jon's father. \o/

"Dany was most likely named by her mother" - why didn't GRRM say Rhaella?! *just curious*

I see, you're suggesting that Dany is a secret Lannister? Interesting.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

My guess would be that it was because the point GRRM was making was that mothers sometimes have the time to name their child even if they die in childbirth. The part that's relevant to this point is that Dany was named by her mother, not the concrete id of that mother.

Thats intersting I wonder what Rhaella's last words were

[King of Winters]

Thats intersting I wonder what Rhaella's last words were

Maybe something like, "Daenerys. Her name is Daenerys".

[lojzelote]

He isn't a Targ <_<

Why in gods name would George ruin such a deliciously twisted, complex, unstable, father son relationship between Tywin and Tyrion?

The whole idea is cheap, watered down and destroys the very essence of the Tyrion-Tywin complexity

Eh, I am mot convinced that Tyrion is a Targ, but why would it FFS destroy the relationship between him and Tywin? Tywin was Tyrion's father figure just like Ned was Jon's, and I must say I've never heard the argument it would cheapen Ned-Jon as a counterargument against R+L=J. And then, Tywin is dead ... how the hell can anything change between him and Tyrion at this point?! I simply don't understand this stance at all, albeit it seems popular for whatever reason.

[Pikachu101]

Eh, I am mot convinced that Tyrion is a Targ, but why would it FFS destroy the relationship between him and Tywin? Tywin was Tyrion's father figure just like Ned was Jon's, and I must say I've never heard the argument it would cheapen Ned-Jon as a counterargument against R+L=J. And then, Tywin is dead ... how the hell can anything change between him and Tyrion at this point?! I simply don't understand this stance at all, albeit it seems popular for whatever reason.

Ned was an actual father figure to Jon, even if Jon finds out about R+L=J he'd still see Ned as his true father. They don't have a messed up, twisted, dark relationship based on pure loathing and refusal to accept the truth.

But Tywin and Tyrion do, the main complexity of their father-son relationship is the fact that Tyrion is more like Tywin than Jaime could ever be. Why would George abandon such a pivotal part of Tyrion's arc just to throw in another secret Targ?