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[Seneti]

As said by another poster in another thread, many things that may seem "wrong" about the show so far only do so because we have the advantage of knowing what happens in the latter half of ASOS and AFFC and ADWD:

- Tyrion: was an angel compared to the rest of the Lannisters until his rapid descent in ADWD

- Stannis: was a complete door mat until he arrived at the Wall

- Daenerys: was a hero and a saviour, until we got to Mereen and realised what an utterly incompetent ruler she is

- Sansa: was almost entirely naive and silly until she got out of the Lannisters' clutches and into the tutelage of Baelish

Now, season 4 and most importantly season 5 and 6 will be D&D's big chance to show us the true colors of these characters. If they mess that up, then I'll join the ranting, raving omg-they-changed-it-now-it-sucks madness.

[Blutraven]

So many people are complaining about what the actors look like. What would you prefer, having it cast solely by people who look the part but are rubbish actors, or having good actors but don't look like how you imagine them? There are some perfections when the looks are important to the character/plot (Gendry/The Mountain etc).

One thing people should realise about the show is that DnD are fans of the books, they like the characters and the like their arcs. By this point in the books, most people (by which I mean myself) didn't like Stannis until he went North, didn't stop liking Dany until Meereen and didn't stop liking Tyrion until Dance. Jon didn't start becoming great until he got back to the Wall as well (in my opinion). We haven't seen any of those events happen yet.

During the first half of Storm, Stannis was locking himself away from everybody except Mel, this sounds to me like he was depressed (I've spent exactly 0 minutes studying psychology so I could be wrong) and this looks like what they've been doing on the show. S2 Stannis was pretty much identical to Clash Stannis. I also believe that the reason that GRRM made Stannis Stannis was to start off with a character that no one likes and is also unheroic and turn him into a likable character that slowly becomes more of a hero (I also think the opposite with Dany). It is not beyond the realm of possibility that DnD are doing this as well (they may not like the character but, as professionals, they should respect the source material enough to leave their opinions on characters out of it (or at least try to)). In regards to Stannis's moments with Mel, we don't see any of them in the books so they COULD have happened, I feel people always forget that Stannis also tries to kill Mel in E10 of S2. Last time I checked that never happened either.

I do feel that some characters have been mis written, particularly Tormund. They basically made him Styr and as they've cast Styr in S4 I can't see why they didn't have him in S3 and have Tormund appear in a few episodes in the beginning like Mance.

[Dragonstoned]

I really doubt DnD are going to show all the horrible things that happen as a result of Dany's actions in Slaver's Bay.

I think the casting is all fine. The writing in places leaves a lot to be desired but during the first season when they were true the novel every character was awesome.

I too will be disappointed if they leave out the 160-something nobles that Dany has crucified in revenge, the two girls she orders 'questioned sharply' etc., but I don't think you can criticise something that hasn't happened yet... (and if it does happen this way it is sure to come in for a lot of criticism).

Plus in the first season there were serious issues with Catelyn, Littlefinger and to a lesser extent Tyrion which left them as lesser characters. There were also some deviations from the books with others e.g. Robert, Cersei although I thought these were good.

[TheKingoftheSevenKingdoms]

So many people are complaining about what the actors look like. What would you prefer, having it cast solely by people who look the part but are rubbish actors, or having good actors but don't look like how you imagine them? There are some perfections when the looks are important to the character/plot (Gendry/The Mountain etc).

One thing people should realise about the show is that DnD are fans of the books, they like the characters and the like their arcs. By this point in the books, most people (by which I mean myself) didn't like Stannis until he went North, didn't stop liking Dany until Meereen and didn't stop liking Tyrion until Dance. Jon didn't start becoming great until he got back to the Wall as well (in my opinion). We haven't seen any of those events happen yet.

During the first half of Storm, Stannis was locking himself away from everybody except Mel, this sounds to me like he was depressed (I've spent exactly 0 minutes studying psychology so I could be wrong) and this looks like what they've been doing on the show. S2 Stannis was pretty much identical to Clash Stannis. I also believe that the reason that GRRM made Stannis Stannis was to start off with a character that no one likes and is also unheroic and turn him into a likable character that slowly becomes more of a hero (I also think the opposite with Dany). It is not beyond the realm of possibility that DnD are doing this as well (they may not like the character but, as professionals, they should respect the source material enough to leave their opinions on characters out of it (or at least try to)). In regards to Stannis's moments with Mel, we don't see any of them in the books so they COULD have happened, I feel people always forget that Stannis also tries to kill Mel in E10 of S2. Last time I checked that never happened either.

I do feel that some characters have been mis written, particularly Tormund. They basically made him Styr and as they've cast Styr in S4 I can't see why they didn't have him in S3 and have Tormund appear in a few episodes in the beginning like Mance.

I think a huge problem for most people is that the characters - like Bran, Stannis, Davos, Jon - and all that are not as developed or shown like Tyrion or Cersei. I mean, Bran, Davos and Jon are POV characters and that's a shame that Cersei is given more to do. I mean, they could have least waited until Season 5 or 6 to just let it all out with Cersei - her chapters are some of the best in AFFC.

D&D are extremely good with writing the political characters - Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei, Margaery, Queen of Thorns

They seem rubbish with magical characters like Bran or Jon. Get Bryan Cogman to do that.

Indifferent to most. Arya I like how they write her, but for the love of god make her more ruthless.

I like the actor that plays Stannis. Just give him more to do.

But Shae, oh my god, i hate her so much both character, acting and writing

George R.R. Martin should write at least two episodes a season, and Cogman two as well. Martin is more experienced than all of them, and Cogman stays true to the books when he can

[Daske]

As said by another poster in another thread, many things that may seem "wrong" about the show so far only do so because we have the advantage of knowing what happens in the latter half of ASOS and AFFC and ADWD:

- Tyrion: was an angel compared to the rest of the Lannisters until his rapid descent in ADWD

- Stannis: was a complete door mat until he arrived at the Wall

- Daenerys: was a hero and a saviour, until we got to Mereen and realised what an utterly incompetent ruler she is

- Sansa: was almost entirely naive and silly until she got out of the Lannisters' clutches and into the tutelage of Baelish

Now, season 4 and most importantly season 5 and 6 will be D&D's big chance to show us the true colors of these characters. If they mess that up, then I'll join the ranting, raving omg-they-changed-it-now-it-sucks madness.

Totally agree with this.

[Daske]

...

Indifferent to most. Arya I like how they write her, but for the love of god make her more ruthless.

...

But there's a group of Freys who would say she has already passed that point of (probably) no return. And was a very logical way to introduce her tipping over into the Abyss. Not really sure how much ruthless you can be as a little kid than what she did.

[Roddy the Ruin]

I think Kit Harrington is actually a pretty competent actor, but the writing is poor for most of his scenes.

ETA: Yes this is probably going to be moved or locked.

:agree:

[Born Sinner]

I think a huge problem for most people is that the characters - like Bran, Stannis, Davos, Jon - and all that are not as developed or shown like Tyrion or Cersei. I mean, Bran, Davos and Jon are POV characters and that's a shame that Cersei is given more to do. I mean, they could have least waited until Season 5 or 6 to just let it all out with Cersei - her chapters are some of the best in AFFC.

D&D are extremely good with writing the political characters - Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei, Margaery, Queen of Thorns

They seem rubbish with magical characters like Bran or Jon. Get Bryan Cogman to do that.

Indifferent to most. Arya I like how they write her, but for the love of god make her more ruthless.

I like the actor that plays Stannis. Just give him more to do.

But Shae, oh my god, i hate her so much both character, acting and writing

George R.R. Martin should write at least two episodes a season, and Cogman two as well. Martin is more experienced than all of them, and Cogman stays true to the books when he can

Actually, Jon gets more to do than Cersei at least in season 3. Bran and Davos just have not that much of material that can be used. Also I think Brans portrayal in the show is pretty decent.

[Minisa]

- Tyrion: was an angel compared to the rest of the Lannisters until his rapid descent in ADWD

- Stannis: was a complete door mat until he arrived at the Wall

- Daenerys: was a hero and a saviour, until we got to Mereen and realised what an utterly incompetent ruler she is

- Sansa: was almost entirely naive and silly until she got out of the Lannisters' clutches and into the tutelage of Baelish

I couldn't disagree less with this. None of these characters are that one-dimensional.

Tyrion may be an "angel" compared to the other Lannisters but noone can claim he's a truly good person.

It may be true that Stannis isn't the most interesting character until he shows up at the wall but he has been villainised a lot by the show.

Daenerys was never a hero or a saviour but the depiction on the third season and in the third book for that matter are very biased towards her.

Sansa had soo much character developement in acok and asos but in season 3 she is more naive than she has ever been in the books.

I too will be disappointed if they leave out the 160-something nobles that Dany has crucified in revenge, the two girls she orders 'questioned sharply' etc., but I don't think you can criticise something that hasn't happened yet... (and if it does happen this way it is sure to come in for a lot of criticism).

Some pictures of the crucifixion can be found here: http://hbowatch.com/game-of-thrones-season-4-behind-the-scenes-gallery/

Unless that's some other scene but I think not.

I wouldn't mind them leaving out the torture of the wineseller's daughters at all. Better they leave it out than actually show it on screen. More violence against women is the last thing the show needs.

It's not about highlighting her bad actions, it's about not glorifying questionable actions. Dany and Tyrion should be portrayed in a less biased way. People can to think for themselves, but right now the show is doing it for them.

[Broken Fox]

Harrington did a solid job in season 1 but from season 2 onwards he just makes the same whiny face over and over and in general acts like a whiny bitch. And it seems like the writers are going out of their way to make him look a giant doofus.

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

I personally think Emilia and Kit are great actors. Emilia had some strange writing is series 2, but her series 3 scenes make up for it. Kit was always great, in my opinion. His face is grumpy sometimes, but that's just his face. And Jon is supposed to be sullen. Everyone is brilliant, except I'm not a massive fan of Mance.

I hate what they're doing to Gendry's storyline- he's not Edric Storm. And they screwed up the house of the Undying scene, but I suppose they just had to make it more "Tv-suiting."

I'd have to generally diagree with all of OP's post. I think HBO has done a terrific job in casting, especially the children. More over, it seems you're just upset with the TV medium. Any and all situations will be love triangles. One because its drama, two, tits. So all angles will inflated to create this atmosphere. Why was ygritte and jon terrible? Bc they forced a loved romance. Shae? Bc Peter Dinklage needs more tv time and guys like guys who get pussy. And Stannis? Absolutely worst miscast, so I retract we do agree on that. Although I love the actor, the writers/directors/producers dropped the ball on stannis.

Thank the seven for you guys I was beginning to completely give up on this forum too many people are bitchers and haters, its pathetic.

I could rant for hours about things people deem worthy of hating on. Especially " That would be cliché" people. I wont though.

[Blutraven]

Harrington did a solid job in season 1 but from season 2 onwards he just makes the same whiny face over and over and in general acts like a whiny bitch. And it seems like the writers are going out of their way to make him look a giant doofus.

Jon's supposed to look like a miserable arsehole.

[Pecan]

I think a lot of people's complaints about the actors have more to do with the writing than the acting. For instance, I think Kit Harrington is fine for the most part, but the character as written is flat and lacks color. Now to be fair, I think Jon Snow, at least as written in the first three books, is a bit of an empty vessel as well. But that's where skilled TV writing and directing can really help.

Also, I can't help but think that they would have been better off straying further from the books than they have so far. The very best TV dramas are character-driven but in GOT it seems like an awful lot of effort is expended to make episodes correspond reasonably closely to the books.

[Daske]

I couldn't disagree less with this. None of these characters are that one-dimensional.

Tyrion may be an "angel" compared to the other Lannisters but noone can claim he's a truly good person.

It may be true that Stannis isn't the most interesting character until he shows up at the wall but he has been villainised a lot by the show.

Daenerys was never a hero or a saviour but the depiction on the third season and in the third book for that matter are very biased towards her.

Sansa had soo much character developement in acok and asos but in season 3 she is more naive than she has ever been in the books.

Some pictures of the crucifixion can be found here: http://hbowatch.com/game-of-thrones-season-4-behind-the-scenes-gallery/

Unless that's some other scene but I think not.

I wouldn't mind them leaving out the torture of the wineseller's daughters at all. Better they leave it out than actually show it on screen. More violence against women is the last thing the show needs.

It's not about highlighting her bad actions, it's about not glorifying questionable actions. Dany and Tyrion should be portrayed in a less biased way. People can to think for themselves, but right now the show is doing it for them.

There's nothing wrong with gloryfying the freeing of slaves. Any of us would be out there cheering too if we had just been freed! We wouldn't be thinking it was questionable! More like hurray I won't be beaten any longer, my daughter won't be a sex slave and my son may keep his crown jewels.

But there will obviously be practical consequences to her actions. It's unfair to criticise them for not showing something that hasn't happened yet!

[Minisa]

There's nothing wrong with gloryfying the freeing of slaves. Any of us would be out there cheering too if we had just been freed! We wouldn't be thinking it was questionable! More like hurray I won't be beaten any longer, my daughter won't be a sex slave and my son may keep his crown jewels.

But there will obviously be practical consequences to her actions. It's unfair to criticise them for not showing something that hasn't happened yet!

It's completely understandable that a freed slave would be happy to be free. And since it's a scene from the book and they are adapting this book series they couldn't just leave a crucial scene out. But did they have to choreograph it they way they did? Did they have to use it as the climax of the episode and as the final scene of the season? I do think a foreign saviour liberating an enslaved people is questionable. And portraying this as a heroic act even more so. I just wish they had done this scene in a more neutral way and toned it down a bit.

The only thing I truely hate is getting labeled a hater when criticising anything about the tv series. I don't hate the show. If I did I wouldn't be discussing it here, I would just stop watching.

[Annara Snow]

I think Lean Headey could have played Asha (maybe if she was a little younger). I agree about the Hound. They should have cast a younger actor who would play him full of hatred who spits his words out like a snake. The Hound on the tv show looks bored and going through a midlife crisis.

If you think that's why the Hound looks bored on the show, maybe it's time to watch Rory McCann's audition for Sandor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIWX2fPx-5k

(the scene that they didn't even have on the show :angry2: )

I think it's hard not to look 'bored' when all you do 80% of your screentime is stand around in the background without any lines.

ETA: Should have read the entire thread first - I see it's already been posted. Still, it doesn't hurt to see it again!

[Annara Snow]

It's completely understandable that a freed slave would be happy to be free. And since it's a scene from the book and they are adapting this book series they couldn't just leave a crucial scene out. But did they have to choreograph it they way they did? Did they have to use it as the climax of the episode and as the final scene of the season? I do think a foreign saviour liberating an enslaved people is questionable. And portraying this as a heroic act even more so. I just wish they had done this scene in a more neutral way and toned it down a bit.

The only thing I truely hate is getting labeled a hater when criticising anything about the tv series. I don't hate the show. If I did I wouldn't be discussing it here, I would just stop watching.

How is it questionable to portray the liberation of slaves as a heroic action?

It is a heroic action.

And why the heck would you tone down a big dramatic scene in a TV show? Portraying it as "neutral"? How? And why?

They made "King in the North" a big "YES!" moment, and that was far less heroic and significant.

Did they have to use it as the climax of the episode and as the final scene of the season?

Do you have an idea of what would make a better climax and final scene of the season?

"So, Daenerys freed a bunch of slaves and they're all calling her 'mother' and treating her as a savior. But that's not really such a big thing, so we're going to go straight to a couple of characters discussing how this could be bad in the future. And now for our climax of the season: here's a really riveting conversation between two people in King's Landing!"

[Annara Snow]

As said by another poster in another thread, many things that may seem "wrong" about the show so far only do so because we have the advantage of knowing what happens in the latter half of ASOS and AFFC and ADWD:

- Tyrion: was an angel compared to the rest of the Lannisters until his rapid descent in ADWD

- Stannis: was a complete door mat until he arrived at the Wall

- Daenerys: was a hero and a saviour, until we got to Mereen and realised what an utterly incompetent ruler she is

- Sansa: was almost entirely naive and silly until she got out of the Lannisters' clutches and into the tutelage of Baelish

Now, season 4 and most importantly season 5 and 6 will be D&D's big chance to show us the true colors of these characters. If they mess that up, then I'll join the ranting, raving omg-they-changed-it-now-it-sucks madness.

Sansa was not almost entirely naive and silly until she got out of KL. if you see her that way, then your views probably match D&D's, so of course you're going to like the way they wrote her in season 3.

But even if you just watch the show, why is Sansa so much more mature in season 2 than in season 3?

[Le Cygne]

- Sansa: was almost entirely naive and silly until she got out of the Lannisters' clutches and into the tutelage of Baelish

Sansa was not almost entirely naive and silly until she got out of KL. if you see her that way, then your views probably match D&D's, so of course you're going to like the way they wrote her in season 3.

And the way they will write her in season 4. Littlefinger, U R so awesome, please give me tutelage so I won't be entirely naive and silly anymore.

Sansa had soo much character developement in acok and asos but in season 3 she is more naive than she has ever been in the books.

Agreed.

[protar]

As said by another poster in another thread, many things that may seem "wrong" about the show so far only do so because we have the advantage of knowing what happens in the latter half of ASOS and AFFC and ADWD:

- Tyrion: was an angel compared to the rest of the Lannisters until his rapid descent in ADWD

- Stannis: was a complete door mat until he arrived at the Wall

- Daenerys: was a hero and a saviour, until we got to Mereen and realised what an utterly incompetent ruler she is

- Sansa: was almost entirely naive and silly until she got out of the Lannisters' clutches and into the tutelage of Baelish

Now, season 4 and most importantly season 5 and 6 will be D&D's big chance to show us the true colors of these characters. If they mess that up, then I'll join the ranting, raving omg-they-changed-it-now-it-sucks madness.

The only one I agree with here is Daenerys. I only joined the forums after ADWD but I'd wager that most people were on her side prior to that, as opposed to the divide we see today.

As for the rest, Tyrion might have been angelic compared to his family, but an actual angel he was not. All of Tyrion's morally ambiguous moments aside from being a Lannister and not defecting to the Starks have been removed or softened. Stannis, even prior to The Wall had moments were the cool, good man glimmered from beneath the surface (e.g not immediately wanting Edric to burn). And Sansa stopped being a naive idiot in Clash of Kings.