Gustavo Fring

Why would Tywin Lannister have sex with shae?

50 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I have explained it before. And it is much more complex than the favourite "he is just a hypocrite" insult that is the knee jerk response of the uninformed.

Tywin can still love whores without having anything to do with Shae, who, let's face it, is just a common camp whore, sleeping with hedge knights in Tywin's army. If all Tywin cared about was sex, he could have whores ten times more beautiful than Shae. He could have the Black Pearl from Braavos on personal retainer (hyperbole), or a collection of the finest whores from Lys waiting in a personal harem. He is after all the richest man in Westeros.

No, he wasn't after Shae just because she is passing pretty. Nope, he was after Shae because of her connection to Tyrion. And then the question becomes, why would that be?

To cut a long story short, because Aerys stole and had sex with the woman that was most dear to Tywin - his wife Joanna - and fathered a son with her. And Aerys was the one man Tywin was powerless to stop from doing so. It left a permanent, burning scar on his psyche. And while Tywin was able to eventually avenge himself on Aerys by killing him and his offspring, it is a psychological wound that will never heal.

And now that Tyrion (Aerys son from this insult) has someone he holds dear, it is a form of vengeance for Tywin to take Aerys's son's "woman" and sleep with her, just as Aerys did to him.

:agree:This is probably it. Lots of clues scattered here and there about the Tywin/Joanna/Aerys situation and this is one of them.

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13 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

After I'd first joined the forum, one of the first standout discussions I ever had was this one.  I think it's a searing indictment of the full extent of Tywin's pathological personality.  

Yup and a good link by @Lord Wraith to an essay about Tywin's deeply personal resentment. Tywin's resentments and taking things as personal slights in such a deep way is to me resembling a narcissistic injury. And the response to it is usually to destroy that person and everyone they hold dear or everything they value.

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I think Tywin fondness for women is something he have in common with his father and that is why he hide it. Tytos was a very weak man, he was insecure, indecisive and openly mocked, he also was fond of women and after the death of his wife took a wetnurse as lover and later took other lowborn woman and let her dominate him and even give orders in the Rock. It is clear that Tywin despise his father image and wants to move away from it as much as possible, that is why he is so ruthless and obsessed with being respected and that is why he always kept his whoring a secret and went far into building a tunnel to go into a whorehouse in secret. I think Tywin was much more like his father he would ever admit.

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On 23/08/2013 at 9:33 AM, Queen Elsa said:

Tytos, Tywin, Tyrion... all have whores. While Jaime..............has Cersei. :P

This is such fuel for the Jaime and Cersei are Targlings and Tyrion is a Lannister theory. Hehe, not proof or anything, just interesting.

It is also possible that Shae sought out Tywin after Tyrion was thrown in the dungeons. She just wanted her bling.

The theory that she was planted there is intriguing, though.

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Shae was the one thing that condemned Tyrion, in the end. Her testimony pushed him over the edge, enough to ask for a trial by combat, which he obviously lost. Even had it not, her testimony surely would've been enough to have a guilty verdict.

She must have been something spectacular to throw your life away for, and she betrayed Tyrion, so it's doubtful that her sparkling personality is what made her so spectacular. I think Tywin just wanted to know if she was worth it.

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I think Tywin is a hypocrite and his children hardly knew him.

Tyrion could never tell what his father was really thinking and feeling. People are saying Tywin is honorable, but we know of Tywin mostly from Tyrion's point of view not other people who have worked him with, his brother etc.

 

As for him having sex with Shae, I wouldn't find it impossible that Shae threw herself at him/seduced him. Sure, maybe Varys fixed them but I don't think Varys wanted any of them dead. He protested when he understood that Tyrion wanted to go to his father's bedchambers because Varys probably knew Shae would be there as well. I just think Shae is a sort of informer for Varys.

 

In my opinion Tyrion kinda spoiled some of Varys' plans.

 

 

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On 01/15/2014 at 11:11 AM, Faceless Man Friday said:

After reading this chapter, I thought Shae had always been Tywin's whore. Bronn was a sellsword. Tywin could have paid him to bring Shae to Tyrion. Who better to spy on his son than his whore? He knew Tyrion would have a whore so why not give him his own to keep him informed of Tyrion's doings as Hand in Kings Landing. He sealed the deal by telling Tyrion not to bring Shae to KL because if he said not to bring her he knew Tyrion would.

 

Exactly what I think. Unfortunately, we will never know for sure.

 

About Tyson and whores I would rather say that he doesn't want them in position of power or influence, like tytos whore. Also, the in hate commoners or consider them as disposable. He is willing to forgive noble enemies but is willing to kill thousands of them just to send a mesage, even if they did nothing to him. That's also why he punished groin so hard for marrying tysha. Low born are meant to stay low in tywin opinion, same for bastards and dwarves.

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We can also possibly give credit to Shae's cunning and survival instincts for being in bed with Tywin. She found Cersei wasn't going to give her what she wanted and was trying Tywin. She'd have not got much from him, though.

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Some very good points and possibilities have been raised.

 

I too find it puzzling as to why Tywin was sleeping with Shae. I had some thoughts while reading:

It is interesting that Tywin made a terrible show of Tyrion's "first whore" but slept with Shae in secret. I wondered if it was possible that Tywin slept with Tysha as well... However, a very noteworthy difference between these scenarios is that Tyrion married one girl but not the other, which would greatly impact Tywin's reaction to these situations. Let's also remember that he made a public mockery of his father's conspicuous mistress.

 

I also found the detail of Shae wearing the chain of office interesting. Did she put it on herself? Did Tywin have her do it? In another thread of the same topic, someone suggested he may have had her wear it to pretend she was Joanna, Tywin's "Hand." 

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