Why the hate for Robb Stark?

[SkaggCannibal]

inept ruler playing way out of his league. Should have listened to his mother. Still like him though.

[Buried Treasure]

Yes, it is Robbs fault he stayed away so long trying to lure tywin out of harrenhall, then comes back to riverrun, and was a complete jerk to Edmure, for defending his lands,.. if i remember he didn't even bother to let Edmure know of his plans did he?

At Riverrun, Edmure petioned Robb to release the Riverlords back to their own castles and Robb permitted it. So they had an agreed plan on how to defend the Riverlands; each Lord would defend their own Lands against marauders and raiders and hole up in their own castles against larger armies. Edmure changed that plan when he called his banners again without Robbs knowledge.

Criticise Robb with Edmure for not sharing his plans to defeat Tywin if you like (I won't because it relied on Edmure sticking to the previously agreed plan) but don't forget to criticise Edmure while you are at it. Edmure's plan for defeating Tywin involved Robb returning from the West to help surround Tywin's army - and Edmure never bothered letting Robb know what he would be required to do for that plan.

[Sullen]

What? I doubt they were planning on going on a campaign of murpillaping throughout the seven kingdoms. And Balon had no true grievance for rebelling. He just likes the idea of being independent which is cool with me. But he was a pussy he did not go full in with independence as he still sought to stay in the good graces of of the Iron Throne (read Tywin).

I'm sorry, but the Ironborn having no true grievance for rebelling is simply not true. While under the influence of the Iron Throne, the act of raiding, on which they are pretty much economically and culturally dependent, is forbidden, which leaves the Iron Islands in a state of misery, where people are starving and live pretty much on a rocky, windy, cold hell.

Ironborn culture is parasitic and morally reprehensible, but forbidding raiding is religious persecution in their eyes, no matter how justifiable it might be.

Out of all the Kings, Balon was likely the one with the most populist cause.

[Alex21]

Yes, it is Robbs fault he stayed away so long trying to lure tywin out of harrenhall, then comes back to riverrun, and was a complete jerk to Edmure, for defending his lands,.. if i remember he didn't even bother to let Edmure know of his plans did he?

He (Edmure) had an order to stay at Riverrun, in war you obey and do not talk to much about your war tactics.

[Sullen]

He (Edmure) had an order to stay at Riverrun, in war you obey and do not talk to much about your war tactics.

He was told to hold Riverrun, which he did the best way possible.

Robb never told him not to leave the walls of Riverrun under any circumstance.

Edmure, with what he was told/knew, acted perfectly, not his fault Robb didn't bother to let the freaking Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and supposedly his right hand man know about his plans.

[l3ol3o]

Well I have the same problems with Robb that I have with Dany.

Both are Kings/Queens and with that comes responsibility. Robb had a responsibility to honor his Oath. He dishonoured it and the results will the ruin if his House and his supporters. His single action cost the deaths of tens of thousands.

Dany does the same thing. She does selfish things all the time which will come back to bite her.

The difference between the two though, and the reason I'm much more harsh on Dany, is the fact that Dany crowned herself where as Robb was crowned by his people.

[Bryden Tully]

Well I have the same problems with Robb that I have with Dany.

Both are Kings/Queens and with that comes responsibility. Robb had a responsibility to honor his Oath. He dishonoured it and the results will the ruin if his House and his supporters. His single action cost the deaths of tens of thousands.

Dany does the same thing. She does selfish things all the time which will come back to bite her.

The difference between the two though, and the reason I'm much more harsh on Dany, is the fact that Dany crowned herself where as Robb was crowned by his people.

The single action didn't led to the 10,000 deaths, the betrayal by Roose Bolton/Walder Frey did-the fact that many lords offered to marry the Frey girl in his place showed how respected he still was. Robb had no idea that Walder would turn on him after breaking bread and marrying a lord paramount-I never understand this justification of the red wedding on the basis of Robb breaking his vow-however that really goes back to my rant about the Frey's not letting him through in the first place

[RattleSnake]

To be frank...I don't hate Robb. He might be a king, but he is also young and unprepared. He has some potential and he would have made a just king at some point...yet he did a bad move by insulting the Freys...and all in name of love.

I felt sorry for what happened to him. Not only they killed him but they also desecrated his body and mocked him even in death.

[Bryden Tully]

To be frank...I don't hate Robb. He might be a king, but he is also young and unprepared. He has some potential and he would have made a just king at some point...yet he did a bad move by insulting the Freys...and all in name of love.

I felt sorry for what happened to him. Not only they killed him but they also desecrated his body and mocked him even in death.

He personally beheaded his own bannerman for treason, he saw through the Frey marriage with edmure and kept his mother in a cell. Robb was pretty just for a 16 year old King in warfare, and I'd say despite being 16 he was the best land commander in the C05K

[Sullen]

The single action didn't led to the 10,000 deaths, the betrayal by Roose Bolton/Walder Frey did-the fact that many lords offered to marry the Frey girl in his place showed how respected he still was. Robb had no idea that Walder would turn on him after breaking bread and marrying a lord paramount-I never understand this justification of the red wedding on the basis of Robb breaking his vow-however that really goes back to my rant about the Frey's not letting him through in the first place

Deciding to go to war did lead to tens of thousands of deaths though, and he is undeniably responsible for that. (As are Tywin, Renly, Stannis, and Balon)

He personally beheaded his own bannerman for treason, he saw through the Frey marriage with edmure and kept his mother in a cell. Robb was pretty just for a 16 year old King in warfare, and I'd say despite being 16 he was the best land commander in the C05K

Being a good king goes way beyond being a good war commander, diplomacy is key, and that is where both Stannis and Robb failed while Tywin and Renly succeeded. (And makes them more competent leaders, if you ask me)

[Maid So Fair]

I think the problem is that people judge Robb with 20/20 hindsight. To me, he was a barely grown up kid who had this huge responsibility thrust on him and given the circumstances he did extremely well and certainly better than anyone in universe really expected him to. Sure, he made mistakes, but that was to be expected and he was punished for them in a completely disproportionate manner. I don't think either the sack of Winterfell or the Red Wedding could have been predicted or are majorly his fault.

[Alex21]

1. He was told to hold Riverrun, which he did the best way possible.

Robb never told him not to leave the walls of Riverrun under any circumstance.

Edmure, with what he was told/knew, acted perfectly, not his fault Robb didn't bother to let the freaking Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and supposedly his right hand man know about his plans.

1. Hold Riverrun, not to face Tywin's army

He (Robb) never said to his uncle to go out of the walls. He leave The Riverlands knowing that his uncle was at Riverrun and the Lords of the Trident in their castles. Edmure made a big mistake to not tell Robb his intention.

Edmure wasn't the Lord of Riverrun at the time, Robb trusted more in the Black fish

[Frey Pie]

He started a war when he could have tried to defuse the situation diplomatically.

Granted, Theon egged him on, but that doesn't change the fact that he killed thousands in the name of dignity and honour.

So you also hate Dany, Tywin, Joffrey, Renly, Stannis, balon, euron?

[Nymeria Wolf-Stark]

inept ruler playing way out of his league. Should have listened to his mother. Still like him though.

Yep, this. ^.^

[RattleSnake]

He personally beheaded his own bannerman for treason, he saw through the Frey marriage with edmure and kept his mother in a cell. Robb was pretty just for a 16 year old King in warfare, and I'd say despite being 16 he was the best land commander in the C05K

Let me reformulate my previous statement. English is not my first language and I encounter difficulties getting my point across.

He was young and unprepared(facing betrayal from Theon, Ned's death, Catelyn releasing Jamie) so people shouldn't hate him for the mistakes he did.

He was a just king and made good decisions at an early age.No doubt that he had potential of being a great king. From his actions and correctness we see that he is truly his father's son. Even his choice of naming Jon as his heir proves good strategy thinking.

So I agree with you and thank you very much for replying.

[Kharn]

What strikes me as most interesting is the fact that all the known Starks beside 3 seem to have large roles but I also assume these 3 will somehow come back into the fold at some point some how....

- Benjen

- Robb

- Eddard

Every other Stark is playing a pivotal role I don't see these 3 sitting around much longer playing 'dead' / 'MIA' ...

[newbieone]

I agree with the view that Robb takes flak for other people's actions, whether mistakes or foul play. Even in his decision to marry Jeyne probably a love potion was involved. There was no Frey betrothal for Robb because there was no determined participant on the other side, perhaps having been engaged to a specific Frey girl would have made Robb act differently, as he would otherwise be dishonouring a specific lady. The Frey promise had been extorted from him anyway, in a dishonourable manner, the Freys had been oathbreaking unfaithful bannermen imposing outrageous terms. RW was caused by a combination of factor: Walder wanting out, Roose wanting out, Jaime being out, Robb wanting to make amendments in his own person and uhm... in Edmure's person, somebody on the Lannister side perhaps cooperating, Lady Westerling being a plotting harpy, Theon taking Winterfell and the Ironborn invasion in general. Same way as Stansa and Arya were prevented from coming back home and Ned lost his life. And Robb was smarter than Ned anyway.

This said, when I was reading it, Robb came across as a dolt, more guilt-tripped than love-struck, while the Freys appeared to me to have acted in good faith before they were spurned.

[Frey Pie]

I agree with the view that Robb takes flak for other people's actions, whether mistakes or foul play. Even in his decision to marry Jeyne probably a love potion was involved. There was no Frey betrothal for Robb because there was no determined participant on the other side, perhaps having been engaged to a specific Frey girl would have made Robb act differently, as he would otherwise be dishonouring a specific lady. The Frey promise had been extorted from him anyway, in a dishonourable manner, the Freys had been oathbreaking unfaithful bannermen imposing outrageous terms. RW was caused by a combination of factor: Walder wanting out, Roose wanting out, Jaime being out, Robb wanting to make amendments in his own person and uhm... in Edmure's person, somebody on the Lannister side perhaps cooperating, Lady Westerling being a plotting harpy, Theon taking Winterfell and the Ironborn invasion in general. Same way as Stansa and Arya were prevented from coming back home and Ned lost his life. And Robb was smarter than Ned anyway.

This said, when I was reading it, Robb came across as a dolt, more guilt-tripped than love-struck, while the Freys appeared to me to have acted in good faith before they were spurned.

I agree with a lot of what you said, even though I never saw Robb as a dolt. Hindsight is a great thing and is used by all Robb's detractors

In any case as to your point on the Freys I would say it's hard to talk about the "freys" as one entity. A number of the Freys stayed loyal - perwyn, Robb's squire olyvar etc. Also I believe stevron was a loyal vassal and stalwart supporter of his king. Walder on the other hand was out for himself at all times, looking for any advantage possible. Same would go for others such as black Walder. There's too many of them to just say the Freys in my opinion

[jalabarxho]

Robb broke a vow yeah, but he did it because he didn't want to dishonor Jeyne Westerling by sleeping with her and abandoing her. who knows what the hell he was thinking when he slept with her, but afterwards it would've been wrong to throw her away like some whore.

I don't know anything about the sexual mores and practices of Westeros, but it only would have been a big deal to have sex with her and not marry her because she was highborn right? If so that makes him even dumber.

[Jankmaster]

I just don't like how he criticized Edmure. Dude took down Tywin and threw back the Mountain. He held Riverrun, but everything is treated like a failure by Robb and now Lord Tully probably sees his greatest success as a failure.