Maester at Kings Landing

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

I cant find another thread on this topic, at least not one replied to this year. If the new Maester sent from the Citadel recognises Qyburn, and lets the HS know why his chain was removed, would this force a reveal of robert strong?

Alternatively could cercei have tommen declare that Qyburn is the new Grand Maester of KL, and refuse to accept whoever is sent from Oldtown in the first place.Cercei has lost a powerful ally in Pycelle, and the new Maester will undoubtedly have a profound affect on her future. if she does have to leave KL, could she take qyburn with her and get rid of the incumbant at Casterly Rock, who we don't seem to have heard much of as I recall.

Any Thoughts?

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Well I think Qyburn is actually Master of Whispers right now, correct me of I am wrong of course, but that would mean he can't be Grand Maester too. Also, following the death of Kevan and Pycelle, I think it's all going to mad and even if she wins her trial I can't imagine Cersei sticking around. Maybe she flees to Casterly Rock with Qyburn and Tommen as you suggest

[Ser Tahu]

I cant find another thread on this topic, at least not one replied to this year. If the new Maester sent from the Citadel recognises Qyburn, and lets the HS know why his chain was removed, would this force a reveal of robert strong?

Alternatively could cercei have tommen declare that Qyburn is the new Grand Maester of KL, and refuse to accept whoever is sent from Oldtown in the first place.Cercei has lost a powerful ally in Pycelle, and the new Maester will undoubtedly have a profound affect on her future. if she does have to leave KL, could she take qyburn with her and get rid of the incumbant at Casterly Rock, who we don't seem to have heard much of as I recall.

Any Thoughts?

Unless I'm much mistaken, it says in either the Kevan epilogue or in Cersei's last chapter that the trial will be in a few days. Either way it isn't enough time for news of Pycelle's death to reach Oldtown, for them to decide upon a replacement and for that replacement to arrive before the trial and reveal ser Robert.

Well I think Qyburn is actually Master of Whispers right now, correct me of I am wrong of course, but that would mean he can't be Grand Maester too. Also, following the death of Kevan and Pycelle, I think it's all going to mad and even if she wins her trial I can't imagine Cersei sticking around. Maybe she flees to Casterly Rock with Qyburn and Tommen as you suggest

Although I don't think there is a precedent for a member of the council having two roles, I don't think it has been explicitly prohibited either.

Anyway, regardless of what happens immediately with the position of Grandmaester, with the deaths of Pycelle and Kevan and the looming trials of Cersei and Margaery, King's Landing is going to be in an absolute state of chaos and division for a while. I personally believe that the trials will take place before the new Grandmaester can be appointed, and that Cersei will win while Margaery loses her and is executed. This will cause House Tyrell to abandon the capital allowing Aegon to conquer the city, while Cersei (and possibly Qyburn if he survives) retreat to Casterly Rock. In such a situation I can see Haldon Halfmaester being appointed to the position.

[Tini]

Margaery isn't in danger of execution. The Tyrells will keep Margaery safe from execution whatever the outcome of her trial will be. That is the reason why they keep their soldiers in King's Landing. If the verdict is guilty, Mace Tyrell will have Tommen declare Margaery innocent by royal decree.

Cersei, on the other hand, must win her trial. The person who would've kept her safe if her champion were to lose just got murdered. She has access to Tommen, too, so she might go for avoiding the trial by having Tommen declare her innocent.

[Ser Tahu]

Margaery isn't in danger of execution. The Tyrells will keep Margaery safe from execution whatever the outcome of her trial will be. That is the reason why they keep their soldiers in King's Landing. If the verdict is guilty, Mace Tyrell will have Tommen declare Margaery innocent by royal decree.

Cersei, on the other hand, must win her trial. The person who would've kept her safe if her champion were to lose just got murdered. She has access to Tommen, too, so she might go for avoiding the trial by having Tommen declare her innocent.

Yes, Mace would try and stop it. But it isn't the crown that is trying Margaery, it is the faith. The High Septon isn't one to care for a King's decree and he has an army of his own. Also, for either Tommen or Mace to stop the execution would be seen by the smallfolk as them going against the faith, which is a move that would only end badly for them.

[tbc]

Yes, Mace would try and stop it. But it isn't the crown that is trying Margaery, it is the faith. The High Septon isn't one to care for a King's decree and he has an army of his own. Also, for either Tommen or Mace to stop the execution would be seen by the smallfolk as them going against the faith, which is a move that would only end badly for them.

I'm not convinced that a battle between the Faith and the Tyrell army at KL would end terribly well for the Faith.

[Ser Tahu]

I'm not convinced that a battle between the Faith and the Tyrell army at KL would end terribly well for the Faith.

My point was that the faith does have an army. As for the battle, I don't believe that any such battle would occur.

1) Mace Tyrell is a known to be indecisive and even cowardly when it comes to armed conflicts

and 2) Mace doesn't have the full strength of the Reach with him, just his small personal force. As far as those in the city are concerned the Faith Militant would at least match, if not exceed, their numbers. And when you take into account all of the non-armed smallfolk in the city (see ACoK for an example of what they can do when angry) who would also turn against Mace, the Tyrells are VERY outnumbered. Mace isn't brave nor decisive enough to fight the faith in the current circumstances (but he might be stupid enough, though :P)

Basically Mace would be forced to live with the verdict of the Faith. In such a situation I believe he would either retreat to Highgarden or defect to Aegon (historically the Tyrells have been fierce Targaryen supporters)

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Although I don't think there is a precedent for a member of the council having two roles, I don't think it has been explicitly prohibited either.

I can't really imagine they would have one person carrying out to roles on the small council, it would give them too much power. For example, if Qyburn was given both positions, he would have control of all these informers, but also allow him the authority of GM (whatever that may be). I suppose those two combined isn't too bad, but imagine master of Whispers + master of Coin. Little birds and unlimited funds..... scary thought

[Myk Lonmouth]

lol I wonder how the process of appointing a new master of whispers is handled. Do they hand out fliers informing all rats, squealers and gossips to please forward all their dirt to the new guy? Bring all your lies, truths and half truths to kindly old Qyburn gentlefolk.

[Harlan]

My point was that the faith does have an army. As for the battle, I don't believe that any such battle would occur.

1) Mace Tyrell is a known to be indecisive and even cowardly when it comes to armed conflicts

and 2) Mace doesn't have the full strength of the Reach with him, just his small personal force. As far as those in the city are concerned the Faith Militant would at least match, if not exceed, their numbers. And when you take into account all of the non-armed smallfolk in the city (see ACoK for an example of what they can do when angry) who would also turn against Mace, the Tyrells are VERY outnumbered. Mace isn't brave nor decisive enough to fight the faith in the current circumstances (but he might be stupid enough, though :P)

Basically Mace would be forced to live with the verdict of the Faith. In such a situation I believe he would either retreat to Highgarden or defect to Aegon (historically the Tyrells have been fierce Targaryen supporters)

I believe that you are correct when you say that the tyrells would defect to Aegon. This is why I think Varys (who happens to be in the capitol) will make sure Margery is pronounced guilty. This would leave kings landing in the hands of cersei and an easy victory for aegon.

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

lol I wonder how the process of appointing a new master of whispers is handled. Do they hand out fliers informing all rats, squealers and gossips to please forward all their dirt to the new guy? Bring all your lies, truths and half truths to kindly old Qyburn gentlefolk.

But if Varys is back in town, was he ever removed from his position officially? It wouldn't take much for Varys to dispose of someone that was in his way, even if it just meant moving him sideways until it was time to let the public know what a monster he was.

[aryagonnakill]

My point was that the faith does have an army. As for the battle, I don't believe that any such battle would occur.

1) Mace Tyrell is a known to be indecisive and even cowardly when it comes to armed conflicts

and 2) Mace doesn't have the full strength of the Reach with him, just his small personal force. As far as those in the city are concerned the Faith Militant would at least match, if not exceed, their numbers. And when you take into account all of the non-armed smallfolk in the city (see ACoK for an example of what they can do when angry) who would also turn against Mace, the Tyrells are VERY outnumbered. Mace isn't brave nor decisive enough to fight the faith in the current circumstances (but he might be stupid enough, though :P)

Basically Mace would be forced to live with the verdict of the Faith. In such a situation I believe he would either retreat to Highgarden or defect to Aegon (historically the Tyrells have been fierce Targaryen supporters)

The Mace Tyrell and possibly even Randyl Taryl have between 20 and 30 thousand troops in Kings Landing. Far more than the faith.

[CountFJM]

The faith don't have an army, they have armed supporters. Some knights who entered into the seven's service, but for the most they're a motley make up of half-armed sparrows.

I don't think it's the High Septon's intention to convict either Cersei or Margaery. While narrow and hard, he's also depicted as pragmatic - he releases Margaery when Tarly shows up in strength, but he also recognizes 1) how weak her case is, and 2) Cersei's role in the set-up. He also hints in his interrogation of Cersei that it's in the church's best interest for her to "win" her trial by battle -- when he easily accepts her denial at the incest charge -- since a loss would invalidate her children and pass the throne to Stannis, who abandoned the faith in favor of R'hllor (can't believe i spelled that right...). Also, recall Kevan's behavior when he was visiting Cersei while she was imprisoned by the faith -- glancing suggestively at the walls, as if he were not free to speak freely -- the High Septon is more than just a zealot, he's also a player, and a shrewd and ruthless one at that. I won't be surprised if he emerges as significant player in WINDS, taking advantage of the power vacuum and tension btw Lannister and Tyrell. Add in that Ser Robert Strong is decked out suggestively in colors of the faith and seven-pointed stars, and I could see the High Septon positioning his victory in Cersei's trial in front of all of KL as one for King Tommen and the faith.

Slightly outlandish thought along the lines of GRRM's "unlikely allies" theme that has emerged throughout the series: what if, after winning her trial, Cersei makes an ally of the High Septon? It struck me as suspicious that she was spending so much of her time in prayer while surrounded by the faith's keepers in the epilogue of aDwD...she's clearly playing along, at least until her trial. Whatever her crimes, she's still the King's mother and the only Lannister in KL, and power-hungry enough to go along with any scheme that keeps her in an influential position in KL and around her son. If/when Aegon takes Storms End and Mace and Tarly leave to confront him (presumably after Margaery's trial) I could see Cersei regaining some measure of power while at least nominally serving the High Septon's interests.

[Prince of the North]

Well I think Qyburn is actually Master of Whispers right now, correct me of I am wrong of course, but that would mean he can't be Grand Maester too. Also, following the death of Kevan and Pycelle, I think it's all going to mad and even if she wins her trial I can't imagine Cersei sticking around. Maybe she flees to Casterly Rock with Qyburn and Tommen as you suggest

Although I don't think there is a precedent for a member of the council having two roles, I don't think it has been explicitly prohibited either.

Well, although it's not explicitly stated anywhere, I don't think, it seems that Bloodraven may have been the both Hand of the King and the Master of Whisperers at the same time. :dunno:

As "Lord Bloodraven," Brynden was rumored to be a sinister sorcerer, effectively ruling the kingdom “with spies and spells."

[ReekGreyjoy]

Well, although it's not explicitly stated anywhere, I don't think, it seems that Bloodraven may have been the both Hand of the King and the Master of Whisperers at the same time. :dunno:

Cool find. But it's moot anyway when considering the reputation of Qyburn. Some of those screams of the Blue Bard must have been heard, and Pycelle sure didn't like his smell. He's not going to make Grand Maester with that kind of fallout surrounding him.

[Prince of the North]

Cool find. But it's moot anyway when considering the reputation of Qyburn. Some of those screams of the Blue Bard must have been heard, and Pycelle sure didn't like his smell. He's not going to make Grand Maester with that kind of fallout surrounding him.

I think you're right. Qyburn is "Cercei's creature", so to speak, and how she goes, he will go. And since I believe Cercei will deservedly meet a bad end...well, you can use your imagination as to what will happen to Qyburn :stillsick:

[Tourniquet]

Qyburn is a tool of Cersei's at the moment and can't survive long once he "master" is gone. That being said he is smart enough to attach himself to those who can get him places. He was smart enough to find service and surve with the Brave Companions, I think that bodes well for his ability to survive post-Cersei. He may retain his position if he can quickly switch his allegiance and provide useful services.

[tbc]

As "Lord Bloodraven," Brynden was rumored to be a sinister sorcerer, effectively ruling the kingdom “with spies and spells."

Rumoured spread by whom?

[Prince of the North]

As "Lord Bloodraven," Brynden was rumored to be a sinister sorcerer, effectively ruling the kingdom “with spies and spells."

Rumoured spread by whom?

His enemies - most notably Maekar Targaryen and the High Septon at the time.

As "Lord Bloodraven," Brynden was rumored to be a sinister sorcerer, effectively ruling the kingdom “with spies and spells." The events of The Sworn Sword take place during his reign as Hand, though he does not personally take part in the story. At that time he had the mistrust of he King's brother Maekar I Targaryen, supposedly due to counsel from the High Septon.

Maekar resented that Bloodraven was appointed Hand of the King when his brother Aerys I ascended to the iron Throne.

In the Great Spring Sickness, King Daeron and the children of Maekar's brother Baelor died.^[5] Maekar's brother Aerys I succeeded to the throne and appointed their bastard uncle Bloodraven as Hand. Maekar had expected to be appointed Hand and could not get along with Bloodraven, so he withdrew from court to his residence at Summerhall.

After Aerys's death, Maekar took the Iron Throne and had Bloodraven imprisoned.

So, Maekar didn't like Bloodraven because he thought he was passed over for the position of Hand by his brother Aerys I. And it's not difficult to see why the High Septon would dislike Bloodraven - he actually is a sorcerer! But, of course, we know that just because someone is a sorceror it doesn't necessarily make them bad ;)

[tbc]

His enemies - most notably Maekar Targaryen and the High Septon at the time.

Precisely. No more reliable than Robert is when talking about Rhaegar.