House Frey: the Great Equalizer

[Grip]

I like some of the Frey's, like Big Walder. I am not a fan of the house in general though neither do I support the notion that the entire house should be destroyed, and every Frey killed. Have those responsible for the RW tried and executed and be happy with that, that's my take at least.

[LordStoneheart]

The whole thing about 'guest right' is superstitious bs.

Its not just superstition. Its basically a law that all of Westeros followed. There's a reason its emphasized so much and there's only been two real breaches we've seen. Both saw negative results for the perpetrators.

Also, while I don't really believe "gods" exist in the traditional sense in this world, the Old Gods concept have certainly shown its power through Bran and Bloodraven. curses on guest right breakers might be real in a sense then. Definitely can't discount it entirely.

[Pwnyou]

Many Freys seems to be bad people, but when we talk about the Red Wedding, Walder Frey did the right thing.

He chose the winning side over the loosing side. The side who gives him things vs the side who spits on him and broke his promise.

Robb deserved everything he got.

[Ser Greg of House House]

People talk as if what all the others do are somehow legal and/or justifiable. Varys is a treasonous bastard and so is YG if he did that. Dany is breaking all the laws and morality. Robb was a fool and broke his word. Stannis is dealing with dark magic.

Now the great Lord Frey breaks one technicality and he's despised forever. Come on... You're all just sore he won.

[Rhymes with Weak]

It was funny, during the events of the red wedding I was more concerned about the Greatjon living then anyone else for some reason. If he died, then I would have been angry. He lived though and went down like a badass, so I wasn't foaming at the mouth, baying for Frey blood like a lot of readers.

In fact I wasn't even that cross.

[Danielsnag]

Many Freys seems to be bad people, but when we talk about the Red Wedding, Walder Frey did the right thing.

He chose the winning side over the loosing side. The side who gives him things vs the side who spits on him and broke his promise.

Robb deserved everything he got.

People talk as if what all the others do are somehow legal and/or justifiable. Varys is a treasonous bastard and so is YG if he did that. Dany is breaking all the laws and morality. Robb was a fool and broke his word. Stannis is dealing with dark magic.

Now the great Lord Frey breaks one technicality and he's despised forever. Come on... You're all just sore he won.

So edgy

[Magnar Of Winterfell]

Well i kinda get walder frey, the man didnt like getting played on, if i was him, i would still murder robb and his mother, like srsly i think robb was the dick in that situation and led himself to his own death, and as for catelyn , i hate her the most out of the all series.

Basically catelyn is the reason for :

Eddard's broken Leg

The war which just destroyed almost everything

Removing the most valuable captive from her son's hands.

bitching about everyone except herself.

Woah Buddy, Robb did come to your house to say sorry and to marry his uncle, Now that was for Robb's gain, but trechery is different than protesting, Murder is different than killing,

If you would do the same than you are the same coward who attacks on people who don't have weapon to defend against. Why not openly defy Robb or Openly declare war?

I am not saying Waldor the murderer didn't have his reason but its different to kill a guest in your house, to feed him salt and bread only to stab him when he turns around.

[PrinceHenryris]

I actually grew to like Merret Frey in his brief stint as a POV character. He was the most luckless of the lot of them, it was a shame how it all turned out though. Hosteen amused me but that mostly comes from the fact that I know that one of Stannis' Knights will indent his brainless skull with a morning-star as he watches his army die about him.

Jaime seems to remember Merret as the bully amongst Lord Crakehall's squires - until Jaime showed up.

[Rhymes with Weak]

Jaime seems to remember Merret as the bully amongst Lord Crakehall's squires - until Jaime showed up.

Well yeah, but from then on he was just kinda sad.

[gregorio]

Agree with everyone who brought up the importance of guest right. It's not just "superstitious bs" but part of a necessary set of rules that allows society to function. Without it, there can be not trust, and therefore there can be no trade.

It's similar to the reason why the UK, one of the most powerful countries in the world, cannot pick up Julian Assange, who is sitting in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. There are a lot of rules governing diplomacy that are an extension of old customs like guest right. Diplomatic immunity isn't rooted in religion, or honor, but common sense.

Usually when a state, or house, breaks these rules, there are severe consequences. Is the short-term reward you'd get from breaking the rule worth the long-term consequences of doing so? Most often, no, including in the case of the Red Wedding. Being granted the Riverlands is meaningless when you're entire house faces decimation, which is where this series seems to be heading. You can't do much with your holdings if you have zero allies. So for those who say they'd have made the same decision as Frey...I'd argue you're not very good strategists. But I could be wrong. Let's wait for the next 2 books to see how things turn out for Walder Frey.

[Riptide]

I recently posted this on a different thread:

Ser Daisy! :lmao: One of the great lines of the first book. I loved Walder from the first scene he was in. I have actually no idea why he gets so much hate. Tywin authorized the massacre, Lothar planned it out, Roose killed Robb. All Walder did was host it and want it to happen! The three that I mentioned before are just as responsible as him, in the case of Tywin, who is loved by a significant minority on the boards, or more responsible in the case of the other two. I hardly ever see any hate for Lothar, and everybody (me included) loves Roose. Why hate Walder? Is it because he reminds them of Rupert Murdoch? I really have no idea.

End copied stuff.

Also, as Tywin points out, the RW saved lives because it shortened the war. Instead of thousands of men being killed to defeat what was left of Robb's army, only 53 died.

[Hatbarlives]

If Walder was so clever planning the RW why did he not see the long term consequences of turning the whole of the north against his weasel family and no other family in Westeros will ever trust or respect them again. The Frey name will forever be tainted by what they did and so hes actually made things 10 times as bad for his family after he's gone. Tywin used them and now they are in a very dangerous position. Bring on Stoneheart!

[Minsc]

Also, as Tywin points out, the RW saved lives because it shortened the war. Instead of thousands of men being killed to defeat what was left of Robb's army, only 53 died.

Tywin is trying justify his dishonorable actions, while at the same time evading the issue of how he wasn't able to defeat a boy half a century younger then him without resorting to unthinkable treachery.

[Arya kiddin']

If Walder was so clever planning the RW why did he not see the long term consequences of turning the whole of the north against his weasel family and no other family in Westeros will ever trust or respect them again. The Frey name will forever be tainted by what they did and so hes actually made things 10 times as bad for his family after he's gone. Tywin used them and now they are in a very dangerous position. Bring on Stoneheart!

The long term consequences are not all bad. He is backed up by the throne, one son inherits Riverrun and there were marriage pacts too I believe. In a stroke he became one of the most powerful house in the north and trident.

[Lord Augie Stark]

Hate the Freys Robert should have takin there title and lordshilp when they showed up late to the trident screw Walder Frey he needs to die

[Riptide]

Tywin is trying justify his dishonorable actions

Absolutely. And justify them with total success was what he did. Even oh-so-witty Tyrion couldn't think of a comeback.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Woah Buddy, Robb did come to your house to say sorry and to marry his uncle, Now that was for Robb's gain, but trechery is different than protesting, Murder is different than killing,

If you would do the same than you are the same coward who attacks on people who don't have weapon to defend against. Why not openly defy Robb or Openly declare war?

I am not saying Waldor the murderer didn't have his reason but its different to kill a guest in your house, to feed him salt and bread only to stab him when he turns around.

And did Robb do when he sent a small force to deceive and later slaughter Lannister men? That's cowardice, too. They were also helpless.

So Walder Frey is just playing the game. People cry because he won.

Now, the whole thing about marrying Edmure is an insult. Who cares about Edmure? They promised to make his daughter a Stark queen, not marry her to some good-for-nothing heir of the upstarts Tullys.

Walder Frey was right to exert his revenge. He was playing the game just like everybody else. Maybe people would like him best if he sent shadow babies to kill the people.

I actually think he was merciful. Instead of making them die painfully in the field, or poisoned, he gave them a final feast before they died. They died happily and quickly.

[Drexyon7]

I thought the RW was huge plot...i don't want to say cop-out...progressing element (that sounded dumb). Anyway without something similar to the RW or Mel's shadow babies the WoFKs would still be going on and the story would've nudged on rather then the fast pace chain of events we have now.

I believe the Freys were a more literary device then a way for the fandom to band together

[LordStoneheart]

And did Robb do when he sent a small force to deceive and later slaughter Lannister men? That's cowardice, too. They were also helpless.

So Walder Frey is just playing the game. People cry because he won.

Now, the whole thing about marrying Edmure is an insult. Who cares about Edmure? They promised to make his daughter a Stark queen, not marry her to some good-for-nothing heir of the upstarts Tullys.

Walder Frey was right to exert his revenge. He was playing the game just like everybody else. Maybe people would like him best if he sent shadow babies to kill the people.

I actually think he was merciful. Instead of making them die painfully in the field, or poisoned, he gave them a final feast before they died. They died happily and quickly.

Uh, no, Robb hadn't been crowned by his bannermen when Catelyn brokered the deal with Walder. He was in the exact same position Edmure was in. Warden of the North, Lord Paramount of the Trident. Walder only would've gained a queen daughter way later. Not sure why you've referred to the Tullys as upstarts since they've held Riverrun since the Age of Heroes.

None of them died happily. Dacey Mormont got an ax in her stomach not long after being embarrassed by a Frey who refused to dance with her. Robb was filled with arrows and then a sword through the heart. Manderly got arrows through the neck. And most of Catelyn went off the deep end, killed Jinglebell (my favorite Catelyn moment) and clawed her face off before getting her throat slit. Only a troll can say they died happily.

And to be disturbingly honest, I bet the Frey Pies tasted much better than the food they served at the RW.

[Aeternum]

And to be disturbingly honest, I bet the Frey Pies tasted much better than the food they served at the RW.

Duh. It'd be a waste for Walder Frey to spend good food on the wedding guests, when they're all dead men walking.

Chef Manderly's steak pies, on the other hand, were prepared with love. The whole point was that Anus Frey would stuff his face with his son Rhaegar and really enjoy the meal.