Dany/Jon ship? Is this on theory based on real facts or made by delusional fangirls?

[Nami]

I don't ship Jonerys, but the way people spend so much time hating (actually I see more people hating this ship than loving it) that I hope it happens just for the lolz

[Nami]

The crucial fact is that the quote appears in the "marriage" trio.

The first is Drogo, the 2nd looks like a greyjoy, and the 3rd - the one she will wed for love - is the blue flower (Jon).

Even though I gag at this pairing, the hints seem pretty solid.

I've always wondered if the betrayal for love will come from Jon

[Le Dragone]

You would think that people would disprove of this ship because it involves incest, but oh wait they're Targs, people don't apply the same morality or rationale to their actions. Why? Because "Dragons and Blood and all that bs".

I agree, I also like Jon too much to want him to end up with Dany.

[Newstar]

Shipping anybody in this series is pretty messed-up, and an exercise in futility, given how much pleasure GRRM takes in killing off people who are happily in love or turning their relationships into dysfunctional nightmares.

About the "sweetness" motif...It is true that "sweet" fragrances often cover up foulness and decay in ASOIAF, or are associated with death. Peaches, a very sweet fruit, are also associated with death. However, there's also a link between poison and sweetness: "Love is poison. A sweet poison, yes, but it will kill you all the same." "Many a poison was sweet as well." "A poisonous sweetness crept into Cersei's tone." "...she said with poisonous sweetness" (hahaha, GRRM reusing phrases, LOL). And so on. Barristan thinks that Dany's love for Daario "is poison. A slower poison than the locusts [the honeyed locusts, which were "sweet" as well], but as deadly." We also learn of sweetsleep that "It's the gentlest of poisons (...) Here, you can smell the sweetness."

So if Dany falls in love with Jon, maybe it's less that "Jon's going to betray or murder Dany" or similar and more "Dany's love for Jon poisons her." And if she does die in childbirth as many have predicted, just as Lyanna--associated with the blue winter rose of the same type that's growing out of the Wall--did before her, then that would explain why it "fills the air with sweetness": Dany's love for Jon will have indirectly killed her when she dies giving birth to his child. Getting a little less obvious, maybe Dany's love for Jon "poisons" her by leading her into a fatal blunder trying to help him or save him.

[Old-Growth]

All the same the vision of the blue rose takes place in a prophetic context, the which is different from the other uses which have been cited as a means to interpret that from the HOTU. I at least would need to see the argument that one can transfer the one to the other.

I have hitherto only predicted Dany plus Jon, but henceforth I will "ship" them. And I agree with Patrick Stormborn, I hope that Martin does actually do this, just to stick it to the naysayers.

[Nami]

On the other hand I think Kit and Emilia would have amazing chemistry on screen

[LordStoneheart]

Sweetness and love have both been linked with poison I think. And the smell of blue winter roses with Lyanna, so that's why sweetness is mentioned I think. Does Dany literally smell the rose in the HOTU sequence? Maybe when she meets Jon his body scent will be so Targaryen she'll "wake up and smell the roses" about his parentage.

I don't ship Jonerys, but the way people spend so much time hating (actually I see more people hating this ship than loving it) that I hope it happens just for the lolz

Hehe me too... I get why some say Jon being king is cliche, but I cannot fathom at all why they think aunt marrying nephew would be cliche. That sounds snarky out loud, but really I don't think its cliche at all. Maybe if neither of them end up in any sort of power at the end and sail off in the Sunset sea together? Idk, but every time I see a complaint about the pairing it makes me want it more. Heehee

[the_one_who_was_promised]

Sweetness and love have both been linked with poison I think. And the smell of blue winter roses with Lyanna, so that's why sweetness is mentioned I think. Does Dany literally smell the rose in the HOTU sequence? Maybe when she meets Jon his body scent will be so Targaryen she'll "wake up and smell the roses" about his parentage.

But the sweetness could also be associated with Lyanna's death? After all, if R+L=J, then Lyanna died giving birth to Jon. Hence, IMO, the sweetness conveyed in the HOTU could be a way of telling Dany that a child was begotten from Rhaegar and Lyanna. When Ned walked into Lyanna's chamber, blue petals flew everywhere, so this could also be associated with sweetness filling the air and as Ned also mentioned the smell of blood, this may indicate that she died.

I know some readers might be aghast at this suggestion (and I was certainly taken aback when I first read it), but there is actually some foreshadowing that Dany will fall for Tyrion.

The foretelling is pretty compelling actually with Shiera Seastar (whose mother incidentally was exceptionally beautiful and the last in her line from an impoverished Valyrian House with her father having known a few whores and murdered one of his former girlfriends as well as her lover) and also a sort-of reverse of the Battle of Trident, where Dany might lead her forces on the Trident against Stannis with a Lannister's help - this time, Tyrion (a re-run of Rhaegar vs Robert?) and defeat him. For further info, please see this link (three or four pages from the last I think): http://asoiaf.wester...-of-dragons-20/

And page 2 of the following (about half-way down): http://asoiaf.wester...on/page__st__20

[Florina Laufeyson]

*really awesome post*

This is a really good catch. Love it!!!

I feel the same way about Aegon and Arianne that many think will happen.

Ehh, i dont think this one is going to happen out of love. People think this will happen because its very heavily foreshadowed in the Arianne sample chapter. And it would be a more political match.

know some readers might be aghast at this suggestion (and I was certainly taken aback when I first read it), but there is actually some foreshadowing that Dany will fall for Tyrion.

Brah, no. Ill take Jon/Dany (which i hate) over Dany/Tyrion any freaking day. :ack:

[Rhymes with Weak]

Brah, no. Ill take Jon/Dany (which i hate) over Dany/Tyrion any freaking day. :ack:

Would you deny a homicidal, rapist dwarf some lovin'. Shame on you...

[LordStoneheart]

Would you deny a homicidal, rapist dwarf some lovin'. Shame on you...

I'll never deny him lovin', just not with someone as valuable as Daenerys.

[Newstar]

But the sweetness could also be associated with Lyanna's death? After all, if R+L=J, then Lyanna died giving birth to Jon. Hence, IMO, the sweetness conveyed in the HOTU could be a way of telling Dany that a child was begotten from Rhaegar and Lyanna. When Ned walked into Lyanna's chamber, blue petals flew everywhere, so this could also be associated with sweetness filling the air and as Ned also mentioned the smell of blood, this may indicate that she died.

Well, Lyanna died in childbirth, and it's a pretty popular that the same will happen to Dany. Couldn't it refer to both?

I know some readers might be aghast at this suggestion (and I was certainly taken aback when I first read it), but there is actually some foreshadowing that Dany will fall for Tyrion.

Hahahah, yeah, no. And the idea that Dany/Tyrion is more likely than Dany/Jon is pretty amusing in of itself.

If Jorah and Quentyn weren't hot enough for Dany, what on Earth makes you think that Tyrion will be? GRRM seems pretty alive to the reality that, barring extreme circumstances, attractive young women will choose hot young men for their lovers, and Dany, being not merely attractive but a great beauty, is no exception. Even aside from that, Dany seems to have a type--badass, meathead warriors--and Tyrion is not it.

I dunno how attractive Jon is, but he seems to attract a fair amount attention from the women around him, so I don't think Dany would write him off as a romantic prospect because of his looks at first blush. Tyrion, on the other hand...

The foretelling is pretty compelling actually with Shiera Seastar (whose mother incidentally was exceptionally beautiful and the last in her line from an impoverished Valyrian House with her father having known a few whores and murdered one of his former girlfriends as well as her lover)

Even though Shiera Seastar is not herself a Blackfyre, Shiera's actually a "tell" that Aegon may have Blackfyre heritage, not "foreshadowing" for Dany and Tyrion. Shiera's mother, Serenei, was a Lysene beauty, her father, also named Aegon (like our Aegon), was grossly fat in his old age and bloated (despite being beautiful in his youth). Illyrio's wife is a Lysene beauty named Serra (sounds an awful lot like Shiera/Serenei). Illyrio was beautiful in his youth and is grossly fat in his old age.

Shiera Seastar = Serenei and Aegon IV's daughter = Targ bastard (and her cousin founded the Blackfyre line)

Aegon = Serra and Illyrio's son = Blackfyre

Also, Aegon IV was really more of a Robert type: Aegon had mistresses, not merely paid company, because unlike Tyrion, in his youth he was gorgeous and didn't want for female attention. Suffice it to say, this has never been true and will never be true of Tyrion. Illyrio, on the other hand, was beautiful when he was younger.

[the_one_who_was_promised]

Well, Lyanna died in childbirth, and it's a pretty popular that the same will happen to Dany. Couldn't it refer to both?

Hahahah, yeah, no. And the idea that Dany/Tyrion is more likely than Dany/Jon is pretty amusing in of itself.

If Jorah and Quentyn weren't hot enough for Dany, what on Earth makes you think that Tyrion will be? GRRM seems pretty alive to the reality that, barring extreme circumstances, attractive young women will choose hot young men for their lovers, and Dany, being not merely attractive but a great beauty, is no exception. Even aside from that, Dany seems to have a type--badass, meathead warriors--and Tyrion is not it.

Well if it's possible that the HOTU vision can apply to both Lyanna and Dany, then I think it is equally possible that another potential piece of foreshadowing can apply to more than one character.

Anyway, I am not in any way postulating this as a given. If you had read my original post, you would have realised that I was citing the Tyrion/Dany foreshadowing from another poster on another thread, and merely pointing out that it might have some merit, due to the potential issues of foreshadowing raised by the original author, so please take it up with the author.

The full text is cited on page 7 of the thread: http://asoiaf.wester...0/page__st__120

[Newstar]

Anyway, I am not in any way postulating this as a given. If you had read my original post, you would have realised that I was citing the Tyrion/Dany foreshadowing from another poster on another thread, and merely pointing out that it might have some merit, due to the potential issues of foreshadowing raised by the original author, so please take it up with the author.

The full text is cited on page 7 of the thread: http://asoiaf.wester...0/page__st__120

I'm pretty sure the poster in question who put forward this theory is going to keep beating the Tyrion/Dany drum until the last page of ADOS, but you were the one who referred to it as "pretty compelling foreshadowing," which, hahaha, I'm sorry, it's not. It's also pretty insulting to Dany, since the theory in question boils her role in the story to the symbolic descendant of a Valyrian aristocrat with no claim to fame other than her beauty and as the mother of a green-eyed/blue-eyed kid, as follows:

-Shiera Seastar foreshadows Tyrion and Dany having a child together, because Shiera has one green eye and one blue eye (even though Dany has purple eyes...)

-Shiera's mother was reputed to practice dark arts, to preserve her beauty (this was never said of Rhaella), and died giving birth to her (although Rhaella hardly has the monopoly on that)

-Shiera's father, Aegon IV, knew many women and whores (rather, he had mistresses, because he was an attractive man in his youth, more Robert Baratheon than Tyrion)

-Shiera's father had many mistresses (Tyrion has had precisely one)

-Tyrion and Dany will fall in love (...even though Dany's shown a marked preference for attractive men, like pretty much every other attractive young woman in the books to date, and has rejected less attractive suitors who are nonetheless much more handsome than Tyrion)

-Tyrion and Dany will get married (even though Tyrion's already married....? Okay, moving right along...)

-Dany will get pregnant by Tyrion (even though Tyrion may very well be sterile, while Aegon IV notoriously fathered many bastards)

-Dany will bear a daughter and will die in childbirth

This all seems to be to get to a kid with a green eye and a blue eye, which could be just as easily achieved by Jaime and Brienne having a kid, Tyrion and Tysha having a kid, or Tyrion and any blue-eyed--not purple-eyed, but blue-eyed--woman having a kid, assuming he can even father children (and it's questionable whether he can). Heck, if the author of this theory is so deadset on getting a Shiera clone, Sansa would be a much better choice for a babymama; like Shiera, she has thick, curly hair (which Dany does not), and like Shiera, she actually has blue eyes. (She's also married to Tyrion.) That gets you there a lot more easily and more plausibly than dragging poor purple-eyed Dany into Tyrion's love life and reducing her role to the mother of a child with interesting colouring.

This theory is many things, but "compelling foreshadowing" it is not.

[Julian Rayne]

I don't think it fits with Jon's storyline. We've seen him struggling with his choices, facing up to the consequences of his decisions and fully understanding the sacrifices he's made. Giving him a kingdom and an elf-queen is taking the easy way out, playing up his struggles for the dramaz but not actually dealing with them. Bad authors do that. I just knew that Eragon's father would turn out to be Bronn because that's a bad series by a bad author. One thing George Martin is not is a bad or lazy author.

At the same time I don't think it's fair to call people who like that pairing "delusional" or "fangirls".

[Squishysib]

At the same time I don't think it's fair to call people who like that pairing "delusional" or "fangirls".

Agreed. Just because I may prefer one "ship" over another doesn't mean I can't see that another is more likely. Doesn't mean I cannot root for circumstances to change. You can harp all you want that it will never happen, but you're not the author and for all we know, the books may end with the next one with a ship from the future setting off a nuke. We don't know.

Effectively bashing people for this is incredibly rude, even if you don't agree.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Arriane and Aegon considered incest?

Sorry to go off topic.

[Dany Girl]

Arriane and Aegon considered incest?

Sorry to go off topic.

well, if Aegon is really Aegon not (f)Aegon, then they're first cousins. But that doesn't appear to be a big deal in Westeros, Tywin and Joanna are cousins(but not first IIRC, so not a direct parallel).

[Florina Laufeyson]

Arriane and Aegon considered incest?

Sorry to go off topic.

I guess. They are cousins. (if Aegon is real.) Elia was Doran's sister. Arianne is Doran's daughter. Aegon (if real) is Elia's son. I do want to point out that cousin marriages were really common even in the real life middle ages among the nobility.

[Newstar]

well, if Aegon is really Aegon not (f)Aegon, then they're first cousins. But that doesn't appear to be a big deal in Westeros, Tywin and Joanna are cousins(but not first IIRC, so not a direct parallel).

Right. Also, Sansa didn't seem to consider being engaged to her cousin a big deal (well, she did, obviously, but not for that reason).