Karmic Justice

[BanzaiZ]

the karmic part is that by telling the truth she could end up saving aryas pet from the death sentence.... But yeah, Im confusing karmic justice with simple ironys.

If she told the truth, she'd risk turning her future husband and future king against her, as well as the current Queen. She doesn't have a full grasp of what a monster Joffrey is yet, but after all of that "a lady is" that's been drilled into her head, I'd be confident she was at least cognizant of the risk she'd court by exposing her betrothed as a "man" bested by a girl.

Ned put her in a terrible situation that she wasn't going to win, no matter what she did. There's no karmic justice there, and I don't even think it's irony. Just an early example of Cersei's cruelty.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

And it is harsh, but sansa losing lady after ahe layed is also karmic justice.

Not really. She claimed she couldn't remember the facts, which wouldn't save nobody's pet at that point, because Nymeria had already gone. It was just downright unfair that Sansa lost Lady for it. And like somebody before said it, she was torn between her sister and her future husband. Clearly a difficult position.

[Lord Egeman]

Frey's killing Robb by breaking an oath after Robb broke an oath is karmic, although it is not justice in any way.

Jaime becoming cripple after crippling Bran can be karmic justice, and Tywin got what he deserved.

[TepidHands]

I don't think Kraznys heard Dany speak Valeryian. That was show only.

He's too distracted by the dragon in the book and she Dany doesn't do the whole Valeryian is my mother tongue thing, because she is Westerosi.

From ASoS, Daenerys II:

She listens implacably as Kraznys disparages her and Missandei translates into friendlier words.

Kraznys's High Valyrian was twisted and thickened by the characteristic growl of Ghis, and flavored here and there with words of slaver argot. Dany understood him well enough, but she smiled and looked blankly at the slave girl, as if wondering what he might have said.

"The Good Master Kraznys asks, are they not magnificent?" The girl spoke the Common Tongue well, for one who had never been to Westeros. No older than ten, she had the round flat face, dusky skin, and golden eyes of Naath. The Peaceful People, her folk were called All agreed that they made the best slaves.

"They might be adequate to my needs," Dany answered. It had been Ser Jorah's suggestion that she speak only Dothraki and the common Tongue while in Astapor. My bear is more clever than he looks. "Tell me of their training."

In Danerys III she is talking to Missandei, who has at that point become part of the deal for the Unsullied:

"That is only for unsullied," the girl said. Then she realized the question had been asked in High Valyrian. Her eyes went wide. "Oh."

And a few pages later, addressing the Unsulliled after completing the deal, she speaks to them in Valyrian and sees one of the slavers, Grazdan

turn his grey head sharply. He hears me speak Valyrian.

Kraznys complains that Drogon will obey him.

"There is a reason. A dragon is no slave." And Dany swept the lash down as hard as she could across the slaver's face. Kraznys screamed and staggered back, the blood running red down his cheeks into his perfumed beard. The harpy's fingers had torn his features half to pieces with one slash, but she did not pause to contemplate the ruin. "Drogon," she sang out loudly, sweetly, all her fear forgotten. "Dracarys."

[PrimeRhaegar]

Vargo

tywin

jamie

amory lorch

cersei

the tickler

the mountain

[nara]

Is there room to consider Ned Stark's beheading, considering what he did with Gared?

I know Gared was a deserter at the end of the day, and Ned was doing his duty. But all the same it's one to consider, on the grounds Gared was telling the truth, had just seen an Other, and was consumed by fear. Admittedly he should have gone back to the NW, but I have some sympathy for the guy.

I think so. The rule that deserters must be beheaded leaves no room for mercy and consideration of whether his actions were justified. Similarly, Ned got no mercy from Joffrey, even though Cersei and Varys wanted it. No one has said that karmic justice always works the way we want it to and has the outcomes we desire.

[yolkboy]

I think so. The rule that deserters must be beheaded leaves no room for mercy and consideration of whether his actions were justified. Similarly, Ned got no mercy from Joffrey, even though Cersei and Varys wanted it. No one has said that karmic justice always works the way we want it to and has the outcomes we desire.

Yes I agree, there's definitely similarities in the situations of which Gared and Ned ended up.

[Nerolunar]

Vargo Hoat, a man known as the "crippler" having his own limbs cut off. Although I'd say feeding his own limbs to him was a bit much.

I missed that detail...

Gross. :eek:

[coil]

Frey pies?

Wyman Manderly's son was fed human meat at Harrenhal, so he does the same with his enemies... but I don't know if that counts as karmic, since it was an intentional revenge.

[Light a wight tonight]

Robert Baratheon, the pig king gets killed by a pig, perfect.

Wild boar king killed by a wild boar is more apt.

[Light a wight tonight]

Jaime having to be saved by crossbowmen (when he jumps into the bear pit at Harrenhall) after repeatedly badmouthing crossbowmen.

[Honest Bill]

Just want to say that i loved that scene where Jon lopped Slynt's head off. At first i thought Jon would be merciful and just throw him in jail and i sighed, and then when he said he was going to hang him i was like "Yes go on Jon!" and then when he said "This isn't right" i knew instantly what he meant because i remembered that whoever passes the sentence should swing the sword, and when he confirmed it by asking for a block, i did a little fist pump...

Cool story eh?

[Prince of the North]

Janos Slynt's execution at Jons hands was one of the few instances of karmic justice in this series. What are some other examples of karmic justice that has happened and what are some instances of karmic justice that could happen.

Yes, I love Slynt's much deserved execution. I also love that, iirc, it was even inadvertently foreshadowed. IIRC, Martin originally wrote that Jon would have Slynt thrown from the top of the Wall with a long rope around his neck. But he changed his mind and then decided to have Jon behead him a befits a Stark. Thus, Sansa's wish/thought that maybe some hero would lop off Slynt's head because of what he did to Ned wasn't even necessarily meant as foreshadowing originally but it ended up being foreshadowing after Martin rewrote that scene! :stunned:

[The Wolves]

Lysa Arryn

[Not a kneeler]

Jaime talking to Ilyn Payne in Feast: "My Sister wanted the girl to lose a hand....It was only by chance that Stark's own men found the girl before me." He says this after he loses his hand. His illicit love for his sister drove him to push Bran, to want to maim Arya. He loses his hand by karmic justice.

Another instance is related by Davos. Mel has given Alester Florent to her god on Dragonstone to conjure up the wind that drives Stannis' ships north to Eastwatch by the Sea. Two pages prior to this we find out "It was as if some angry god was exacting payment for their easy voyage north." This occurs when Davos and Salladhor Saan weree sailing south and SS quits. Davos must make his own way to White Harbor

[Dead Wolf]

When Theon jumped off WF's outer wall with Jeyne, he was betraying Ramsay, who had betrayed him

[Northbound]

I think Nymeria was dead regardless if she was protecting Arya. Nymeria shed Blood of the Lion, she must be punished!

The WOLF, should shed the blood of a LION; as often as possible!!!!!

[Zell Holland]

Perhaps Tyrion. Betraying his lover, Tysha, thinking her to be a whore, only to be betrayed by a whore, Shae, thinking her to be his lover.

[Greywind84]

Tywin being found with a whore in his bed is absolute karmic justice, goes to show how full of it he truly was.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

And it is harsh, but sansa losing lady after ahe layed is also karmic justice.

If she told the truth the consequences would have been worse.