Narcotics, Hallucinogens, and Sourleaf, oh my!: Drug Use in ASOIAF

[Éadaoin]

There is a variety of drugs in ASOIAF, from milk of the poppy, which is a very strong and very addictive narcotic, to shade of the evening, a powerful hallucinogen. This thread is for discussion of the various drugs in ASOIAF and their uses.

We will start with milk of the poppy, which is the drug we know the most about. Milk of the poppy is used by many characters for different purposes. Robert Arryn of the Vale uses milk of the poppy to calm his seizures and relax himself so he doesn’t get hurt. Gregor Clegane is addicted to the substance and suffers from intense headaches when he is in withdrawal. He must have a hit every few hours or he suffers immense pain. It is not clear if he became addicted to it from using it as a pain killer after suffering a wound, or if he became addicted to it after using it for his headaches (this is what I'm assuming). Many other people in the series also take milk of the poppy to kill pain. It is without a doubt among the most common of drugs in westeros.

Next on the list is the hallucinogen shade of the evening. This makes people see some crazy stuff! Dany takes it in Class at the House of the Undying, where she has all her visions. This is some really powerful stuff. It seems to give people one hell of a trip. It tastes incredibly horrible, as victarion greyjoy cannot even swallow it. It seems to be used most often by the warlocks of Qarth.

Next up is sourleaf. Sourleaf is similar to chewing tobacco. A simple drug, it numbs pain and makes the user feel good. It also happens to have the unfortunate side effect of turning a person's mouth and teeth red: a "red smile".

Last but not least, there is alcohol. Alcohol is obviously by far the most commonly abused drug in ASOIAF, and almost everywhere we turn, we see prominent characters using it to numb their pain. Tyrion and Robert are two such examples. Alcohol is cheap, not difficult to find, and plentiful. It can also be addictive, and has serious potential for abuse.

This thread is to discuss the various drugs in ASOIAF, and their effects on the characters who use/abuse them.

[E-Ro]

I am pretty sure that Gregor got hooked on milk of the poppy from using it recreationally with his pals. Take a second and picture that one in your head.

Btw, this thread is so well written, did anyone help you out with this or did you solo it?

[Pod The Impaler]

Weirwood paste seems to have a pretty harsh effect too.

[thecryptile]

RE: Gregor Clegane- the headaches likely stem from acromegaly, which would also explain his gigantic size. IMO, he started using the milk of the poppy because of his headaches, and only then became addicted. Headaches aren't typical of opiate withdrawal, users usually report body aches, particularly back pain.

RE: Sourleaf- a better RL analogue would be Betel nuts, which cause the users teeth to be stained red.

[Éadaoin]

I am pretty sure that Gregor got hooked on milk of the poppy from using it recreationally with his pals. Take a second and picture that one in your head.

Btw, this thread is so well written, did anyone help you out with this or did you solo it?

I'm trying to picture it - a young Gregor just wanting to let loose with his pals and have some fun. I'm having a hard time doing so, tbh. Actually, I assume he got hooked on it because of his headaches.

Brah, do you want me to credit you in the OP or something? ;)

[Morienthar]

RE: Sourleaf- a better RL analogue would be Betel nuts, which cause the users teeth to be stained red.

But it's not really addictive on it's own.

[thecryptile]

But it's not really addictive on it's own.

I have no experience with Betel nuts, but from what I've seen in media reports the mixture of the areca nut and the betel leaf with a bit of lime is a stimulant like caffeine, nicotine, or the coca leaf in its' natural form and quite addictive. And it gives the user a "red smile", just as sourleaf does. I'm certain that GRRM was thinking of Betel nuts when he introduced sourleaf to ASOIAF.

Actually, I assume he got hooked on it because of his headaches.

Acromegaly is the key to understanding Gregor. The benign tumor that causes his headaches and unusual size might even play a part in his psychopathology, depending on where it is located.

[Rhymes with Weak]

Milk of the poppy really does sound like liquid heroin. Screw the long and arduous process of becoming a warg, Bran could've just flew with that stuff.

[Ludd]

Um

Of course milk of the poppy is like heroin/opium. What do you think opium is made from - Poppies. In its medicalised form ie laudanum it was widely used as a pain killer and relaxant right up until about 1910 or so. It was used in BABY teething syrups

[Morienthar]

I have no experience with Betel nuts, but from what I've seen in media reports the mixture of the areca nut and the betel leaf with a bit of lime is a stimulant like caffeine, nicotine, or the coca leaf in its' natural form and quite addictive. And it gives the user a "red smile", just as sourleaf does. I'm certain that GRRM was thinking of Betel nuts when he introduced sourleaf to ASOIAF.

I know a lot of people who used to chew it,Have stopped and have no withdrawal effects and the Red Smile doesn't stay.

I find it a bit gross.

Sourleaf could be an amalgamation of the two i.e Chewed tobacco and Betel Leaf.

[Jon Flowers]

How about qat as an analogue to sourleaf. Some friends of the family actually have a qat tree in their nursery and so I got to learn a good deal about it growing up. Honestly though, I don't think that there's any one correct answer for sourleaf, rather it's likely to be a little bit of everything.

[Innkeeper]

I wonder why they still give sweetsleep to Robert Arryn. There are probably less dangerous painkillers than that.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

What about Dreamwine? It's a sort of sedative I think.

[Slackylc]

I wonder why they still give sweetsleep to Robert Arryn. There are probably less dangerous painkillers than that.

Because if he suddenly happens to die then LF can blame the maester and the sweetsleep.

[Morienthar]

How about qat as an analogue to sourleaf. Some friends of the family actually have a qat tree in their nursery and so I got to learn a good deal about it growing up. Honestly though, I don't think that there's any one correct answer for sourleaf, rather it's likely to be a little bit of everything.

That would actually work better Cathine is even addictive.

btw isn't it spelled Khat??

[yolkboy]

Regarding shade of the evening... there's a supposed elixir for sale near Qarth, mixed with virgin's milk.

Elsewhere they saw beautiful bronze daggers for sale, dried squids and carved onyx, a potent magical elixir made of virgin’s milk and shade of the evening, even dragon’s eggs which looked suspiciously like painted rocks.

The fact it's placed next to rocks painted like dragon's eggs makes me question it's authenticity, but I'd still like to know what it allegedly does. Longer life? Alchemy, changes things into gold? Elixir is a vague description.

Anyway, it's good to see milkshake make an appearance in ASOIAF.

[Morienthar]

Is the Virgins Milk the same as in RL i.e Tincture of Benzoin or something else??

[yolkboy]

Is the Virgins Milk the same as in RL i.e Tincture of Benzoin or something else??

haha i was just thinking that. Apparently women can produce milk when they are virgins, so I'm with that.

I want milkshake, like Daniel Plainview.

Also, it's on sale around dragon's eggs that look like painted rocks. I don't think what you buy at these port side markets is necessarily what you think you're buying. It's probably milk from a sexually seasoned wet nurse or an animal.

[RoamingRonin]

Milk of the Poppy is based on the opiates extracted from real world poppy plants. The books describe it as a powerful pain reliever like morphine or codeine. Would not drink. Gregor Cleagane consumes it for his headaches, not to get seven-hells-wasted.

Sourleaf is just chewing tobacco with some mild pain relief qualities. I think just like smoking cigarettes or chewing real tobacco, the effect it has on the body diminishes over time. Would not chew.

Dreamwine is another powerful sedative. This one seems to be fat soluble as it can build up in the body and cause strange side effects such as nosebleeds and death. Vitamin D is fat soluble and can accumulate in toxic levels in the body if a person takes too many supplements.

Shade of the evening has no real world equivalent. It's made of magicks. Doesn't Dany contemplate on the flavor as being foul at first but better as she continues to drink? Isn't this the drink that reminds her of good things in her life and the taste of Drogo's semen? Groce. Would not drink.

Weirdwood paste is also made of magicks and has no real world equivalent. It might also be made of Jojen Reed. Would eat if it meant Jojen was dead.

[Morienthar]

haha i was just thinking that. Apparently women can produce milk when they are virgins, so I'm with that.

I want milkshake, like Daniel Plainview.

Also, it's on sale around dragon's eggs that look like painted rocks. I don't think what you buy at these port side markets is necessarily what you think you're buying. It's probably milk from a sexually seasoned wet nurse or an animal.

Do we know what it's supposed to do??