Narcotics, Hallucinogens, and Sourleaf, oh my!: Drug Use in ASOIAF

[yolkboy]

Do we know what it's supposed to do??

Nope. I said before it's an alleged elixir, which could mean anything from medicinal, life-elongating to alchemic uses.

Though, it probably does as much as viagra pills purchased from unsolicited junk mail.

[thecryptile]

I know a lot of people who used to chew it,Have stopped and have no withdrawal effects and the Red Smile doesn't stay.

I find it a bit gross.

Sourleaf could be an amalgamation of the two i.e Chewed tobacco and Betel Leaf.

Could be. I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject, as Betel nuts aren't used in my area. Chewing tobacco OTOH...

How about qat as an analogue to sourleaf. Some friends of the family actually have a qat tree in their nursery and so I got to learn a good deal about it growing up. Honestly though, I don't think that there's any one correct answer for sourleaf, rather it's likely to be a little bit of everything.

Qat is actually what I was thinking of when I said that Betel nuts are addictive, now that I've had a chance to sleep on it. Qat isn't widely used in America either.

btw isn't it spelled Khat??

Either spelling is OK I think, like "gray" vs. "grey". The original word is Arabic IIRC, so there would be a number of ways to transliterate it.

[Steinnis]

Euron Greyjoy sure knows how to party. The guy drinks shade of the evening like its milk. That stuff kinda sounds like acid trips, the LSD of westeros. The guy always seemed to be a bit mad and I think the SotE ... completes him.

[Caesar beyond the wall]

RE: Gregor Clegane- the headaches likely stem from acromegaly, which would also explain his gigantic size. IMO, he started using the milk of the poppy because of his headaches, and only then became addicted. Headaches aren't typical of opiate withdrawal, users usually report body aches, particularly back pain.

RE: Sourleaf- a better RL analogue would be Betel nuts, which cause the users teeth to be stained red.

Gigantism would be a better diagnosis - acromegaly happens only after epiphyseal plate closure at puberty, typically in middle age - so does not effect height, typically just makes you have a distorted face, huge hands etc.

[E-Ro]

RE: Gregor Clegane- the headaches likely stem from acromegaly, which would also explain his gigantic size. IMO, he started using the milk of the poppy because of his headaches, and only then became addicted. Headaches aren't typical of opiate withdrawal, users usually report body aches, particularly back pain.

RE: Sourleaf- a better RL analogue would be Betel nuts, which cause the users teeth to be stained red.

Some interesting stuff. I guess this might be correct, personally, I think my take on this is way more entertaining.

What about Dreamwine? It's a sort of sedative I think.

Completely forgot about dreamwine. But yeah, seems like a sort of sedative.

[tormund's beard]

i've always tought that sourleef was a coca-like plant.

[RumHam]

Weirdwood paste is also made of magicks and has no real world equivalent. It might also be made of Jojen Reed. Would eat if it meant Jojen was dead.

That made me laugh.

Isn't there also some drug or drink that unsullied use to feel no pain? At least during their training?

[Slackylc]

That made me laugh.

Isn't there also some drug or drink that unsullied use to feel no pain? At least during their training?

Wind of Courage it's called, a mix of nightshade, bloodfly larva, black lotus root and some other secret stuff.

[Mark Antony]

Shade of the evening seems pretty trippy mannn

[thecryptile]

Gigantism would be a better diagnosis - acromegaly happens only after epiphyseal plate closure at puberty, typically in middle age - so does not effect height, typically just makes you have a distorted face, huge hands etc.

You're right... I thought they were the same thing, but no. Gregor definitely has gigantism.

Some interesting stuff. I guess this might be correct, personally, I think my take on this is way more entertaining.

You could be right, I just get hung up on the gigantism.

Do we hear about anyone else abusing milk of the poppy? I can think of a lot of drunks in Westeros, but Gregor and Euron are the only druggies I can think of.

i've always tought that sourleef was a coca-like plant.

It might be. Qat is very similar to coca. The red smile bit makes me think Betel nuts, but sourleaf has some effects that are atypical of Betel nuts. I think GRRM was inspired by several RL plants- Coca, Qat, Betel & tobacco.

[Éadaoin]

Wind of Courage it's called, a mix of nightshade, bloodfly larva, black lotus root and some other secret stuff.

Yum.

I feel even worse for the Unsullied now than I did before. Bloodfly larva? Gross.

[Aldor Wyl]

I don't think Gregor Clegane suffers from acromegaly, because his brother is similarly tall, which makes me think height and big size is a genetic family trait. Acromegaly is not usually a family traits, people suffering from it have normal sized parents. I think he's just big.

[nastydream]

There is a variety of drugs in ASOIAF, from milk of the poppy, which is a very strong and very addictive narcotic, to shade of the evening, a powerful hallucinogen. This thread is for discussion of the various drugs in ASOIAF and their uses.

We will start with milk of the poppy, which is the drug we know the most about. Milk of the poppy is used by many characters for different purposes. Robert Arryn of the Vale uses milk of the poppy to calm his seizures and relax himself so he doesn’t get hurt. Gregor Clegane is addicted to the substance and suffers from intense headaches when he is in withdrawal. He must have a hit every few hours or he suffers immense pain. It is not clear if he became addicted to it from using it as a pain killer after suffering a wound, or if he became addicted to it after using it for his headaches (this is what I'm assuming). Many other people in the series also take milk of the poppy to kill pain. It is without a doubt among the most common of drugs in westeros.

Next on the list is the hallucinogen shade of the evening. This makes people see some crazy stuff! Dany takes it in Class at the House of the Undying, where she has all her visions. This is some really powerful stuff. It seems to give people one hell of a trip. It tastes incredibly horrible, as victarion greyjoy cannot even swallow it. It seems to be used most often by the warlocks of Qarth.

Next up is sourleaf. Sourleaf is similar to chewing tobacco. A simple drug, it numbs pain and makes the user feel good. It also happens to have the unfortunate side effect of turning a person's mouth and teeth red: a "red smile".

Last but not least, there is alcohol. Alcohol is obviously by far the most commonly abused drug in ASOIAF, and almost everywhere we turn, we see prominent characters using it to numb their pain. Tyrion and Robert are two such examples. Alcohol is cheap, not difficult to find, and plentiful. It can also be addictive, and has serious potential for abuse.

This thread is to discuss the various drugs in ASOIAF, and their effects on the characters who use/abuse them.

you have the best avatar ever!

dat gif :wub:

[Aldor Wyl]

Also, people who have acromegaly usually have all sorts of physical problems, so if Gregor indeed suffered from it there is no way he could fight the way he did. He is described as being quick for his size, if you'll remember. It is possible that GRRM designed the character as suffering from acromegaly, but if he did he overlooked some facts about the condition.

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

Isn't "Virgin's Milk" an oxymoron? Sold in the market next to painted rocks, it's prob like those tonic/elixirs sold in the old west. Efficacy = zero.

No one has mentioned "Sweetsleep," which sound like a Nyquil / Ambien type thing. Efficacy = Good in very small doses. Easy to OD and never wake up.

Shade of the Evening: I'd be all over this stuff, TBH. I think the blue mouth is kindof a cool look even. It's like psilocybin mushrooms (if you ever do shrooms make tea, don't eat them you fool!) except magic, like a witches brew. It tastes like crud on first sip but then the magics set in and it tastes like whatever is your favorite thing. More than being a hallucinogen, it seems to let users see the past and future. Efficacy = Super useful. I'd steal a cask too.

Milk of the Poopy* is drinkable heroin. Or like, a glass of milk w/ bourbon in it. Quit it w/ that stuff. They need to invent injectable morphine. Efficacy = Somebody talk to Qyburn--he's invented syringes.

Sourleaf is a cross between chewing tobacco & coco leaves (which the Andes used. I tried some in Peru & they're gross). It makes the user have a mouth full of disgusting pink froth. Efficacy = gross factor makes it not worth it.

Booze. Lots of wine and ale and we've heard of Black Strap Rum from molasses & Tyroshi Pear Brandy, but no other spirits IIR, which is odd. I do like the talk of wine quality though--nobody wants that Yellow Ghiscari Piss.

I'm honestly somewhat surprised that nobody in Planetos has invented smoking.? (besides dragons)

[RumHam]

(if you ever do shrooms make tea, don't eat them you fool!)

I always used to eat them. Don't you have to be very careful not to get the tea too hot or it burns out the active ingredient?

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

^not sure about that. They say boiling water scorches tea/coffee anyways. Break it up into an infuser, poor just below boiling and let it steep. Effects are near identical yet sooo much better on your insides than eating those shitgrowths. I've (in the past*) eaten fresh ones in Amsterdamn and dehydrated ones here, but the tea method was a revelation.

*Please excuse the candor of this discussion. Kids, don't do drugs.

[MyNamesWASABI]

I pose the possibility of sourleaf being the Roselle plant. It's a hibiscus from west africa. in burmese (language) it's called chin baung ywet, which literally translates to "sour leaf". Its flowers give a red color to drinks that it is put in, so id assume it could do the same to teeth. it doesn't do anything in the way of pain relief, but it does have some antioxidant effects.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roselle_(plant)

[The Snow of Winterfell]

What if Euron thinks he went to Valyria but he was actually trippin out on SotE?  :cheers:

[VenezuelanLord]

What if Euron thinks he went to Valyria but he was actually trippin out on SotE?  :cheers:

He got some souvenirs, the drahon binding horse, and allegedly a dragon egg that he proceeded to throw to the sea ( some people think this was a bluff, or that he used the dragon egg to pay for the FM that killed balon).. But im open to the idea that euron os bluffing his ass off and everybody is buying it... It doesnt explain where did he got the horn tought