Sansa Dragonrider possibilities?

[bardstark]

Firstly, does anyone have any quick threads? I have searched for it, but it seems none.

I have some theories that Sansa will be a dragon rider. I won't go into absolute detail, but concisely:

1) Sansa is a warg. Her capacity to warg was cut short when Lady was unjustly put to death.

2) Sansa's ability with Lady. Lady was the most well-behaved of the direwolves early on. Sansa is a gentle maiden, and in much of alchemical symbolism and grail symbolism the maiden serves the function of taming the primal energy - which is many times expressed as fire and a dragon.

3) Throughout ASOIAF we see that the history of the world is ending a 'cycle'. We see this with the terms of a "Long Night" and "Dawn Age". The dusk of this current age is setting into a long night, and much of the tumult at the end of the age has to do with a necessary recourse and reshuffling that level out with the new dawn. Moreso, history in ASOIAF appears to rhyme and repeat themes from prior tales and legends.

This is to say, I believe there is a link - despite the blood relation - between Visenya Targaryen and Sansa. Visenya and her dragon take the Vale. While Visenya's martial character is more similar to Arya, I reckon that with her positioning in the Vale, and it being a potential landing for a Tyrion-led Dany army we could see this as a possibility.

4) Sansa, in wildling terms, is 'kissed by fire'. We have yet to see what that really means. I think there is more than simply a red head from beyond the wall. Ygritte was fiery, and there must be a legend or origin of the term. Mayhaps kissed by fire is a link to a capacity to manipulate fire, and thus dragons. Fire in this sense is closer to the 'fire made flesh' of dragons, or the mystical fire of Rh'llor (which is closer to the old gods than most would suspect IMHO)

It seems to me that Sansa's wolfblood and/or fieriness are kept in check by her lady's courtesies and her fear. Winter is coming, and her Stark ('strength' in german) will come to the fore.

Sansa is in a deceivingly powerful position. Once she leaves this inertia, she will go from pawn to player. I think she will be the 'ice' aspect of ice and fire. That Dany and Tyrion will land in the Vale, Sansa will kill LF and have the Vale (and the Realm's) gratitude and loyalty - while it simultaneously announces her as a player. The next people in line for Sansa's retribution would be the Rock and the Reach, the two kingdoms which featured in the Field of Fire as well.

I reckon she will avenge the injustices done to her, beginning with LF then Cersei and little miss Tyrell.

What do you think? Has there been any threads re: 'kissed by fire'?

thanks all!!

[Lady Beyond the Wall]

I think it would be a really huge surprise if Sansa rides a dragon. Not likely.

edit typo

[bardstark]

Isn't that what GRRM thrives on? The most unlikely things continue to happen.

[Newstar]

If we get canon confirmation that Targ blood is a prerequisite for dragon riding--a review of The Princess and the Queen published a while ago (even though the novella isn't out yet) seemed to suggest that--then Sansa's out of the running for riding a dragon as a rider. She could still ride as a passenger, if she bums a ride off one of the riders. Maybe Jon would be willing to indulge her. :D

As for warging, given that Sansa's not even warging anything yet, warging a dragon would be out of her league. Bran is probably the only Stark who has the chops to manage it at this point. Doesn't mean that Sansa couldn't acquire the skills, but that's a hell of a learning curve.

4) Sansa, in wildling terms, is 'kissed by fire'.

Despite what the TV show would have you believe, Sansa is not a redhead. She has auburn hair, which is more of a brown-red, the same as the other non-Arya trueborn Starks (Robb, Bran, and Rickon). Ygritte, having straight-up red hair--and the freckles to show for it--is "kissed by fire." And if Sansa is "kissed by fire," so are Robb, Edmure, Catelyn, Bran and Rickon, who have the same hair colour she does.

[AMoore4]

I think it would be a surprise if Sansa became a "player" of the Game of thrones. Everyone assumes that she is being tutored in the "game" this however would be a traditional transition, from pawn to player. I think Martin will make Sansa hate the Game and will do everything to destroy everyone attempting to play it due to the cynicism built up from a lot of her family members dying. Ergo she will never be a dragonrider rather she will oppose any and all dragon riders

[Ser Pounce FTW]

If we get canon confirmation that Targ blood is a prerequisite for dragon riding--a review of The Princess and the Queen published a while ago (even though the novella isn't out yet) seemed to suggest that--then Sansa's out of the running for riding a dragon as a rider.

I haven't hear this. In fact, I thought the horn Victarion has would help control the dragons so anyone could ride them. :dunno:

I guess this means my theory that Tyrion will ride the dragon is no longer viable, huh. :(

[bardstark]

Newstar, i haven't read the Princess and the Queen. Tho, I don't know why a Targ pre-req would be the case. Seems amateurish for Martin. This isn't Gondor, here.

I can see the point of kissed by fire. How many other 'kissed by fire' characters have we come across.

Philosophically, there is only a threshold between dichotomies. One can become the opposite by going thru its antithesis. Hence Ice can equate to Fire.

I will stick to the IMHO rather significant loss of her direwolf. Of course it means she loses her way as a Stark, but also leaves a gaping vacancy for the Stark child. All of the living Starks have their animal.

Also, I didn't mean an active warging (shall we say), which Bran experiences and Arya and Jon to some extent in their dream-life. But more like a queenly recognition by one of the dragons, which goes beyond a simple connection. More like Robb and Grey Wind's.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Not likely,she'll warg birds.

[Mladen]

If we get canon confirmation that Targ blood is a prerequisite for dragon riding--a review of The Princess and the Queen published a while ago (even though the novella isn't out yet) seemed to suggest that--then Sansa's out of the running for riding a dragon as a rider. She could still ride as a passenger, if she bums a ride off one of the riders. Maybe Jon would be willing to indulge her. :D

Well, there is that possibility that all Stark line has a bit of Targaryen blood in them... But, we'll see about that. I am hige Sansa supporter, but I have to say that warging a dragon, even for me, sounds too much... I have no doubts she is a warg, and that most likely she will warg birds, but the dragon is another league.

Despite what the TV show would have you believe, Sansa is not a redhead. She has auburn hair, which is more of a brown-red, the same as the other non-Arya trueborn Starks (Robb, Bran, and Rickon). Ygritte, having straight-up red hair--and the freckles to show for it--is "kissed by fire." And if Sansa is "kissed by fire," so are Robb, Edmure, Catelyn, Bran and Rickon, who have the same hair colour she does.

TV Sansa is redhead, most likely because Turner is blonde? But, nonetheless, kissed by fire could mean another thing - Unkiss

So, all in all, I doubt Sansa will warg a dragon, although it would be immensly cool... :)

[Ser Pounce FTW]

I will stick to the IMHO rather significant loss of her direwolf. Of course it means she loses her way as a Stark, but also leaves a gaping vacancy for the Stark child. All of the living Starks have their animal.

Which is precisely the point to Lady's death. It's meant to leave a gap.

[bardstark]

d'ya see the vacancy being resolved?

[RumHam]

Newstar, i haven't read the Princess and the Queen. Tho, I don't know why a Targ pre-req would be the case. Seems amateurish for Martin. This isn't Gondor, here.

I can see the point of kissed by fire. How many other 'kissed by fire' characters have we come across.

Philosophically, there is only a threshold between dichotomies. One can become the opposite by going thru its antithesis. Hence Ice can equate to Fire.

I will stick to the IMHO rather significant loss of her direwolf. Of course it means she loses her way as a Stark, but also leaves a gaping vacancy for the Stark child. All of the living Starks have their animal.

Also, I didn't mean an active warging (shall we say), which Bran experiences and Arya and Jon to some extent in their dream-life. But more like a queenly recognition by one of the dragons, which goes beyond a simple connection. More like Robb and Grey Wind's.

If anything it would have to be Valyrian blood, not Targaryen blood. It's not like Targaryens were the only (or even the most prominent) Valyrian Dragonlords. So really, there should be people in Volantis behind that black wall that have more Valyrian blood than any modern Targaryen.

Personally I'm starting to wonder if it's not an issue of "Dragons can smell your blood and only like Targaryen's or Valyrians" but instead has something to do with the dragonhorns, and how they need to be "bound with blood." If each Dragonlord family of Valyria had a dragonhorn that was bound to their family with blood (say, with a Nissa-Nissa like sacrifice of a family member) the Targaryens would have brought their dragon horn to Dragonstone when they fled. After the doom they would have been in possession of the only known (until Euron finds one) dragon horn. It would have been bound to the Targaryen family, and anyone else attempting to blow it would die like Euron's mongrel. That would have the same end result, that only Targaryens could bond with dragons after The Doom.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

d'ya see the vacancy being resolved?

It was sort of filled by the Hound for a while but it's supposed to leave her vulnerable and removed from magic so, no, I don't think she will ever acquire another magical bond with another animal. That would render Lady and her death as meaningless and I really doubt that that's how Martin rolls.

[Newstar]

It was sort of filled by the Hound for a while but it's supposed to leave her vulnerable and removed from magic so, no, I don't think she will ever acquire another magical bond with another animal. That would render Lady and her death as meaningless and I really doubt that that's how Martin rolls.

Yeah. "You lose your direwolf, but you temporarily gain an alcoholic, pyrophobic asshole who's useful in a fight provided fire's not involved but who has some serious anger issues" is very GRRM. "You lose your direwolf, but you get a supercool dragon!" is not.

[Mladen]

It was sort of filled by the Hound for a while but it's supposed to leave her vulnerable and removed from magic so, no, I don't think she will ever acquire another magical bond with another animal. That would render Lady and her death as meaningless and I really doubt that that's how Martin rolls.

Well, we know he said they are all wargs, years after Lady's death. In my opinion, Lady's death had multiple effects on Sansa's storyline. Most importantly, it was the cruel way to domesticate Sansa. By killing her wolf, Martin turned Sansa into what she needed to be in KL, for later survival of the horror of Joffrey's torture. It did left her alone, making her also a lone wolf. But it most certainly did not sever her warging ability, and btw, the entire she was less Stark, is actually quite funny, given that she did exactly the same what her Stark aunt did, the one no one doubt she is a Stark. Lady's death is forceful domesticity of Sansa...

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

Sansa will most likely warg birds, maybe even dogs. Dragons probably aren't a possibility. It's too hard and she hasn't any practice yet. I think the only Stark skilled enough to control a dragon would be Bran. Bloodraven is actually the best candidate for skinchanging a dragon though.

[BanzaiZ]

I think it would be far more subversive of GRRM to have Sansa have a more direct impact in the fight against the Others as a dragon rider, than the one trope he hasn't seemed to so far make much of an effort to subvert, with the farm boy to hero with Jon. Especially since Sansa is one of the characters with the least agency we see in the series. I would be okay with her becoming the most savvy political Stark, but I would be exceedingly happy to see Lady Sansa Stark, gain her own agency and be a dragon rider in her own right through skinchanging, and still be the sort of "lady character' she's been, without having to drastically change into a magical tomboy trope. To me, that would be very subversive indeed.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Sansa will most likely warg birds, maybe even dogs. Dragons probably aren't a possibility. It's too hard and she hasn't any practice yet. I think the only Stark skilled enough to control a dragon would be Bran. Bloodraven is actually the best candidate for skinchanging a dragon though.

Birds are extremely hard to warg as well.

ETA:

I think it would be far more subversive of GRRM to have Sansa have a more direct impact in the fight against the Others as a dragon rider, than the one trope he hasn't seemed to so far make much of an effort to subvert, with the farm boy to hero with Jon. Especially since Sansa is one of the characters with the least agency we see in the series. I would be okay with her becoming the most savvy political Stark, but I would be exceedingly happy to see Lady Sansa Stark, gain her own agency and be a dragon rider in her own right through skinchanging, and still be the sort of "lady character' she's been, without having to drastically change into a magical tomboy trope. To me, that would be very subversive indeed.

So she would basically become the super warg and have no consequences at all of losing her direwolf. Talk about having your cake and eating it, too.

Martin hasn't created such fairytale arcs so far but, I suppose one can never know for sure.

[Newstar]

So she would basically become the super warg and have no consequences at all of losing her direwolf. Talk about having your cake and eating it, too.

Martin hasn't created such fairytale arcs so far but, I suppose one can never know for sure.

Yup. Sansa trading in her dead direwolf for a dragon would be about on the same level as Jaime growing back his hand, Theon growing back his cock, or Ned growing another head. Actions have permanent consequences in this series.

[BanzaiZ]

Birds are extremely hard to warg as well.

ETA:

So she would basically become the super warg and have no consequences at all of losing her direwolf. Talk about having your cake and eating it, too.

Martin hasn't created such fairytale arcs so far but, I suppose one can never know for sure.

Oh, I'd accept a trade off of her being unable to warg a wolf ever again. If the death of Lady cuts her off from becoming a true warg, but leaves her a powerful skinchanger, I'd be okay with it. I would take Sansa with agency and a disconnect to the rest of her family in that particular aspect, if it means Sansa gains agency.