Will Sansa slowly turn into Cersei? I think so.

[Ser John Alexander Hall]

I feel like Sansa will become the next Cersei under Petyr. Supposedly, she has a very controversial chapter in The Winds of Winter. I think she is going to smother Robert Arryn, and blame it on his seizures so Harry the Heir (her betrothed) can become Lord of the Vale. Petyr will then mold her into Cersei 2.0. With all the emotional trauma she's been through, she flips the switch and becomes completely ruthless. When Petyr has nothing left to teach her, she kills him too for betraying Ned. Petyr never sees it coming because he still sees Cat when he looks at her and is blind to the monster he created. It just seems like the natural evolution for her character. She always wanted to be like Cersei, and she will be.

Thoughts?

[RoamingRonin]

I highly doubt Sansa/Alayne would suddenly resort to murder, let alone kinslaying. Even Cersei wasn't so foolish in her youth. If anything, Sansa/Alayne would encourage someone else to kill Robert. For instance: she would insist the maester continue giving Robert dreamwine but even that's a bit far'fetched. Killing Petyr... How would she do it? With a knife? Sword? Poison?

Sansa/Alayne killing Robert and Petyr are huge actions and I don't thinks she's heading down that dark of a path.

[ejhawman]

:cheers: Welcome to the forums!

Many people here are thinking she will become a player in her own right, but not like Cersei, who is arrogant and careless of innocence, a fool to begin with, and losing her mind now. More like the Queen of Thorns, who can be genuinely good-hearted, but will do what she must for the good of the realm. The event pattern you describe is pretty much consensus here, but she will resolve not to be cruel, only to deliver justice to those who deserve it. Sort of like Arya, with a softer style.

[ejhawman]

As to how Sweetrobin dies, RoamingRonin has it right: having learned how things are done in the Seven Kingdoms (at least by women) she will not do the deed herself; she will find a catspaw.

[Jon of the Dead]

I think GRRM is gonna pull the old blindside on this one. We're lead to believe Sansa will kill SR and marry Harry, just as LF wants, but I think that if she's gonna kill someone (which I'm still not sure) it's gonna be Harry, throwing a wrench on LF's plans and blaming him somehow.

Then she will use her influence on SR to have the Vale. We already know she's pretty much the only person that kid listens to, so I think that will play a part.

But I just remembered GRRM managed to throw a wildcard into the mix in her last chapter: the Mad Mouse. He could create all kinds of trouble, I think.

BTW, welcome to the forums, OP :cheers:

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

In a ACOK, in Maegar's holdfast Cersei advises Sansa to make people fear her. Sansa thinks she would rather make them love her. Remember how even as a child, Cersei was abusing her baby brother and pushing her best friend down a well? I really don't see becoming like Cersei out of nowhere.

[Arya kiddin']

Sansa will never be ruthless like Cersei. She acknowledges in her conversation with Cersei that it is better to have your subjects love you than fear you.

As to the Sweetrobin part, well she does considers spanking him, but imo that would be the extent of it. :lol:

[Bippy]

I think there's a potential for a certain degree of selfish ruthlessness, but Sansa is compliant enough with the forms and ideals of society that I can't see her being like Cersei or even Lysa, come to that. But I find it hard to visualize her ever being truly altruistic like Ned.

[Basebourne]

it's possible, but i don't think so. a cersei is not made, a cersei is born

[Mad Monkey]

Sansa is too strong to break the way Cersei did. Sansa has a self-control that Cersei has not yet demonstrated. For example, if someone spilled food on Sansa's dress at a party by mistake, she could probably restrain herself from having everyone from that person's hometown tortured into insanity and then burned alive. It's little things like that that make Sansa an intelligent, reasonable young woman and Cersei Lannister an aggressively irresponsible criminal.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I see Sansa rebelling against Baelish in order to protect her family (cousins, siblings, etc.), not completely succumbing to his teaching and becoming and out-and-out murderer. I don't see how she's anything like Cersei, really, considering that Cersei was downright evil even as a child.

[SeanF]

Hopefully, Sansa will suffocate or poison the little wretch.

[Sansa_Stark]

it's possible, but i don't think so. a cersei is not made, a cersei is born

This.

Sansa does not wish/order death/rape on people just because they may or may not have jab on her pride in the tiniest way.

When Cersei was a girl of 10, she murdered her best friend just because she was aiming for Jaime. This is while Cersei was 100 percent confident she was going to marry the prince and eventually become the queen.

Sansa has a conscience. She is capable and has done deeds of kindness and altruism. She loves her family in a non-narcissistic way. Moreover, she is not a greedy person.

Sansa might turn morally grey in the future, but she will never walk over a million corpses the way Cersei has just because she gets angry at someone.

[Pod The Impaler]

I feel like Sansa will become the next Cersei under Petyr. Supposedly, she has a very controversial chapter in The Winds of Winter. I think she is going to smother Robert Arryn, and blame it on his seizures so Harry the Heir (her betrothed) can become Lord of the Vale. Petyr will then mold her into Cersei 2.0. With all the emotional trauma she's been through, she flips the switch and becomes completely ruthless. When Petyr has nothing left to teach her, she kills him too for betraying Ned. Petyr never sees it coming because he still sees Cat when he looks at her and is blind to the monster he created. It just seems like the natural evolution for her character. She always wanted to be like Cersei, and she will be.

Thoughts?

Well, I don't think it's very likely that Sansa will become like Cersei - not to that degree - because first of all, Cersei is a psychopath, and has been one apparently since childhood.

Still, the chance is there that Sansa could evolve into a harder, meaner version of herself, developing some cunning and using it to bring people down.

Several iterations ago in the "Sansa: From Pawn To Player" thread, I wrote a long analysis of what's going on with Littlefinger and Sansa ...

http://asoiaf.wester...v/#entry3804345

... and so basically at the end, I put in several options for what Sansa may become in the future. If you feel like reading the whole thing, or just part 6, go for it. But to make a long story short, option #3 has the closest thing to what you are speculating on:

----- ----- -----

III - Lady Stark the Queen of Ice: Sansa Stark becomes a dangerous game-player, along the lines of Littlefinger himself, but with an image more like the Queen of Thorns, Cersei Lannister, Melisandre, or Arianne Martell. However, unlike the second option, this Sansa has nothing emotional to bind her to Littlefinger (or anyone else). She takes his knowledge, uses his own weaknesses, usurps his power, and then destroys him. This would not be out of revenge, but rather because she has become like him. Scheming, manipulating and backstabbing become second nature to her. Her old Stark values such as having compassion, acting with honour, or finding true love are buried by a blizzard of cynicism; these are childish dreams she gave up on so she would never be helpless or heartbroken again. In other words, she follows the emotional path Young Petyr did, becomes the new Littlefinger, and then removes the old one. She is a game-player, and the game makes people into monsters. This would make her story an anti-redemption arc (a corruption arc?).

----- ----- -----

So basically it is possible that Sansa masters Littlefinger's lessons, right down to the lack of ethics, and she is definitely the one that is best placed pierce Lord Baelish's armour, so to speak.

Is it likely? I would say this new attitude does not seem normal for her - but then again, who knows what GRRM has in store for her. Jaime Lannister was once proud to be a kingslaying sister-fucking child defenestrator - then he got a redemption arc, and now look at him. So I do not think it impossible to see an "angel" fall. If a redemption arc can exist, then so must its opposite.

[SeanF]

Well, I don't think it's very likely that Sansa will become like Cersei - not to that degree - because first of all, Cersei is a psychopath, and has been one apparently since childhood.

Still, the chance is there that Sansa could evolve into a harder, meaner version of herself, developing some cunning and using it to bring people down.

Several iterations ago in the "Sansa: From Pawn To Player" thread, I wrote a long analysis of what's going on with Littlefinger and Sansa ...

http://asoiaf.wester...v/#entry3804345

... and so basically at the end, I put in several options for what Sansa may become in the future. If you feel like reading the whole thing, or just part 6, go for it. But to make a long story short, option #3 has the closest thing to what you are speculating on:

----- ----- -----

III - Lady Stark the Queen of Ice: Sansa Stark becomes a dangerous game-

player, along the lines of Littlefinger himself, but with an image more like the Queen of Thorns, Cersei Lannister, Melisandre, or Arianne Martell. However, unlike the second option, this Sansa has nothing emotional to bind her to Littlefinger (or anyone else). She takes his knowledge, uses his own weaknesses, usurps his power, and then destroys him. This would not be out of revenge, but rather because she has become like him. Scheming, manipulating and backstabbing become second nature to her. Her old Stark values such as having compassion, acting with honour, or finding true love are buried by a blizzard of cynicism; these are childish dreams she gave up on so she would never be helpless or heartbroken again. In other words, she follows the emotional path Young Petyr did, becomes the new Littlefinger, and then removes the old one. She is a game-player, and the game makes people into monsters. This would make her story an anti-redemption arc (a corruption arc?).

----- ----- -----

So basically it is possible that Sansa masters Littlefinger's lessons, right down to the lack of ethics, and she is definitely the one that is best placed pierce Lord Baelish's armour, so to speak.

Is it likely? I would say this new attitude does not seem normal for her - but then again, who knows what

GRRM has in store for her. Jaime Lannister was once proud to be a kingslaying sister-fucking child defenestrator - then he got a redemption arc, and now look at him. So I do not think it impossible to see an "angel" fall. If a redemption arc can exist, then so must its opposite.

This ties in quite neatly with the No Good Deed Going Unpunished thread. Occasionally, virtue is rewarded, but more often, it's punished, in this world. Players of the Game have to be hard, ruthless, cynical, while avoiding outright sadism (like Ramsay) or allowing their emotions to lead them into stupid moves (like Cersei).

Dany saw this correctly in AGOT, even though she's shied away from it subsequently. When the Lhazarene were slaughtered, raped, and enslaved, she told herself this was the price of the Iron Throne. And so it is. People who want to rule shouldn't revel in such things; simply, view them with indifference, if they further their ends.

[Mladen]

I see Sansa rebelling against Baelish in order to protect her family (cousins, siblings, etc.), not completely succumbing to his teaching and becoming and out-and-out murderer. I don't see how she's anything like Cersei, really, considering that Cersei was downright evil even as a child.

Basically this. No matter how much "controversy" there is in certain chapter, Sansa just can't suddenly transform. Her last chapter in AFFC showed us how caring she is to SR, and how she has taken the role of his guardian, so to go from there to Cersei in one chapter is completely undoable. Also, everything Sansa showed in ASOIAF is that she is basically total oposition of what Cersei represents. From 2 lines: "I would make them love me", and "I would have given them bread" we are shown that Sansa is someone far different from Cersei. And as Apple Martini said, if she is going to kill anyone, it most certainly will not be her own blood. I see Martin transforming her into a player, but not kinslayer.

[Atropis the Elf]

it's possible, but i don't think so. a cersei is not made, a cersei is born

Exactly this. Sansa has nothing in common with Cersei. There was an interview of Sophie Turner (sorry, I don't have the link) saying that Sansa is turning from pawn to player. And well, to my view, Sansa is not as stupid as AGoT introduced her.

[Robin the Mighty]

Nah, cercei is too cruel, you can see how he is treating tyrion as a baby, but sansa is not that, as somebody sais she will be like the QoT

[SeanF]

Also, everything Sansa showed in ASOIAF is that she is basically total oposition of what Cersei represents. From 2 lines: "I would make them love me", and "I would have given them bread" we are shown that Sansa is someone far different from Cersei. And as Apple Martini said, if she is going to kill anyone, it most certainly will not be her own blood. I see Martin transforming her into a player, but not kinslayer.

But, an older Sansa might come to think of those kind sentiments as just being silly and unrealistic.

[Mladen]

But, an older Sansa might come to think of those kind sentiments as just being silly and unrealistic.

Possibly, but we haven't seen her rejecting those sentiments given how she made everyone in Eyrie to be kind to her, and how well she adapted as a bastard. Also, if she does leave those sentiments, she still needs miles and miles to be anywhere near Cersei's craziness.